External telephone wiring and ADSL

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My sentiments - but this is Usenet, the guy asked a perfect sensible question, and par for the course when there is a disagrement because (to paraphrase) "someone went off at a tangent", it ends in flame. Ho-hum.

Petroleum Jelly, like Vaseline? [1]
I suppose it could be run to some sort of junction box in the house using 'normal' cable, and then from there taken to the outside world through a wall?

There seem to be regs for everything these days. I found out recently that I can't put garden lighting in because it has to be Part P competent certified or something? All I need to do is run the cable through the wall into an existing indoor socket, but because it's not RCD protected (or something) I have to have a 'spark' do it? It's low voltage lighting for decking too, have I been misinformed?
[1] Not that I recall the last time I used such, and not for anything other than to lubricate a tight screw into a rawlplug!
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Tx2 wrote:

Didn't you install it last year? Of course you did.
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"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

oh, before Jan 1st you mean ..... erm, yes, I did, I remember now ;-) What I meant was my neighbour found out he couldn't do it .... [ahem]
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On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:32:35 +0100, Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

And have the receipts to prove it. We nearly lost a sale a couple of years ago because some work had been done that didn't meet the Part L requirements that prohibit you from replacing windows or doors without building regs approval. Without proof it was done before 2002, we had to either get it inspected or indemnify the buyer. Expect the same to start happening with Part P in a year or so, once solicitors get wise to it.
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On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:24:03 +0100, "Tx2"

You've been slightly misinformed. You can do it yourself, but it may need to be inspected by the Building Control Dept. I'm afraid however that extra-low-voltage lighting is included in the scope of the regulation.
You can read part P online at http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_br1007.pdf but here's a summary, much snipped, of Table 2 as it applies to both you and the OP: --------------- Work that need not be notified to building control bodies:
Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation
Work not in a special location on Telephone or extra-low voltage wiring and equipment for the purposes of communications, information technology, signalling, control and similar purposes
Special locations: Locations containing a bath tub or shower basin Swimming pools or paddling pools Hot air saunas
Special installations: Garden lighting or power installations Extra-low voltage lighting installations, other than pre-assembled, CE-marked lighting sets
Extra-low voltage is defined in BS 7671 as ‘normally not exceeding 50 V ac or 120 V ripplefree dc, whether between conductors or to earth.’
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wrote:

Yes, that was it ... a Part P competent 'spark' can self-certify it, a 'normal' electrician can do it, but then a fee is payable to have it inspected, or you do it yourself, and report it to the appropriate department, whereby a fee may be payable, or something. I was advised not to do it myself as *should* there be a fire etc caused by the electrics, the insurance company wouldn't even consider the claim based on the fact the installation wasn't/ may not be certified. I can understand it if I'm sticking bare wires in a fusebox, but this is feeding a low voltage cable through the wall, plugging it into a transformer, and then plugging that into a wall socket!
Apparently, as I think you mention in a latter post, certificates of installations are something solicitors will no doubt be asking for in house sales etc.
However, i see that "pre-assembled" is mentioned in garden lighting, which I suppose mine is, except I have to put the bulbs in, feed the cable through into the house, and then plug it into a transformer, the latter then into the wall. Is the "pre-assembled" enough?
My main fuse unit isn't RCD'd I don't think though?
I wonder how many people are actually killed or seriously injured each year by low voltage lighting? All the time you have B&Q, Homebase etc selling the stuff, you are going to get the DIY'er doing it, so I doubt these regs will really put a complete stop to it.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_br1007.pdf
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On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:22:37 +0100, "Tx2"

I suspect 'pre-assembled' means something with a plug on the end of a cable.

Don't let an electrician near it, before he can even change a bulb, he'll legally have to put in RCDs. Mind you, this has been true for several years.

By <50V lights, probably absolutely none. By faulty 240V wiring, far too many.

Most people don't even know, and won't till they try to sell their house nad get asked the question....
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Mark McIntyre wrote:

Going OT for a bit, why this over-use of the prefix "pre-" with everything these days..? Surely something is either assembled or it isn't..?! Pre- means before, doesn't it..? So something that's pre-assembled is before assembly, in other words not assembled at all..?!!
It's like this "pre-ordering" that bookshops seem to like, particularly when it comes to Harry Potter books for some reason. If I go into a shop and want to buy something, if they have it, I buy it. If they don't, I may well order it. Where does the "pre-" bit come in..?!
Ivor
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:11:41 +0100, "Ivor Jones"

Pre-assembled = Assembled before you bought it. This usage of pre predates present predilections, predictably.

Yeah, its garbage in that context.
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Mark McIntyre wrote:

By faulty *wiring*, an average of 0.8 deaths per year, according to the Government's own Regulatory Impact Assessment produced as part of the pseudo-consultation process before Part P.
Deaths by faulty appliances and extension leads are far higher. The use of extension leads will rise as a result of Part P. This possible increase in fatalities was not taken into account in the RIA.
Owain
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nvalid> writes

Remove the grit to reply
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3 Jun 2005 23:04:33 +0100:

Well, if that's your attitude, please do STFU.
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wrote in uk.telecom on

It's not my attitude, it's the way that last post made me feel. I came here looking for advice on one thing, quite clearly explaining what i wanted to do, and seems some went off in other directions involving all sorts.
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On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:04:33 +0100, "PutridStench"

The external cable you proposed to use is superior to Cat 5 for this application. The signal has come several kilometers on cable of exactly the same specification. Replacing the last few yards with Cat5 will give no performance improvement and a less robust cable.

It will, perfectly. As I said before though you would be better running only the two pairs (no ringing line) and using master sockets at the far end.
Incidentally for fixing the cable to the wall I suggest you look at www.screwfix.co.uk and search for item 89484. For what they are they are expensive (12p a clip) but they are so much faster, neater and easier to use than any other form of cable holder in brickwork that they are well worth it.
--
Peter Parry WPP Ltd http://www.wpp.ltd.uk
Antenna solutions for car, caravan, house, office, boat and tent.
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There is special outdoor CAT5 cable. In practice the regular stuff will work fine. If you are really concerned then you can use hosepipe as conduit.
--
Mark Evans
St. Peter\'s CofE Aided School
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RolYat wrote:

CW1128 is designed for installation in underground ducts, protected from mechanical damage but prone to waterlogging. I don't know how resistant to UV the polyethylene insulation would be in an exposed location, but I guess it should last a few years at least. If you wanted to be safe, you could put it into plastic conduit, which is fairly cheap: you could then get away with using internal cable.
CW1378 is normally used for above-ground "drop-wire" but I don't think it comes above 3 pair.
The line for ADSL would be run straight from the house outlet without filtering. If you want a telephone outside, either use another filter in the summerhouse or run a line from the house's filter over another cable pair, so you have both filtered and unfiltered extensions.
The fax line wouldn't need a master socket or 3rd wire if it's outgoing only, so 2 wires (1 pair) to a secondary would be OK, though it would be wise to allow for a change of use later.
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What sort of distance are we talking about here?

Personally, I would not run any Cat 3 cable anywhere nowadays. I would put in a number of Cat 5e runs, which you can use for phone or network (and an increasing number of other purposes).

It should work OK.

Actually, you should run only 1-pair per extension over a shared cable like this, interconnecting pins 2 and 5 only, and use master sockets rather than extension sockets at the far end to recreate the bell wire on pin 3.
You need to think where your ADSL filter(s) go. You could have one filter at the BT master socket handling all the extensions and carry the ADSL signal in a 3rd pair, although the premises cable total length might degrade the ADSL signal more than multiple ADSL filters would.
However, as I said earlier, I would run a number of Cat5e cables rather than running any Cat 3.
--
Andrew Gabriel


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snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk ...

Pass. I haven't measured accurately, but less than 50 metres.

The proposed cable is for phone, albeit ADSL as well. No networking at all.
Simple telephone extensions, but to an outside location, hence why I want the right cable, and cable I can hopefully run 2 lines down.

ah .... enter confusion.

Multiple cables .... messy, conduit, costly. maybe?
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On Tue, 31 May 2005 01:17:04 +0100, RolYat

today. Tomorrow, who knows: :-)

Cat5e is good for this - four twisted pairs in one sheath, and low interference by design.
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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net ...

Any further networking - back to the house - will be wireless. I know I could do it the other way, house to garden, but for my own reasons, I want wired to the summerhouse, and then anything requiring access in the house (my laptop) would connect wirelessly from a wireless access point mounted in the summerhouse.
Unless someone knows of a stand alone wireless access point that has a built in hub?

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