My sentiments - but this is Usenet, the guy asked a perfect sensible
question, and par for the course when there is a disagrement because (to
paraphrase) "someone went off at a tangent", it ends in flame. Ho-hum.
Petroleum Jelly, like Vaseline? 
I suppose it could be run to some sort of junction box in the house using
'normal' cable, and then from there taken to the outside world through a
There seem to be regs for everything these days. I found out recently that I
can't put garden lighting in because it has to be Part P competent certified
All I need to do is run the cable through the wall into an existing indoor
socket, but because it's not RCD protected (or something) I have to have a
'spark' do it? It's low voltage lighting for decking too, have I been
 Not that I recall the last time I used such, and not for anything other
than to lubricate a tight screw into a rawlplug!
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:32:35 +0100, Dougal
And have the receipts to prove it. We nearly lost a sale a couple of
years ago because some work had been done that didn't meet the Part L
requirements that prohibit you from replacing windows or doors without
building regs approval. Without proof it was done before 2002, we had
to either get it inspected or indemnify the buyer. Expect the same to
start happening with Part P in a year or so, once solicitors get wise
You've been slightly misinformed. You can do it yourself, but it may
need to be inspected by the Building Control Dept. I'm afraid however
that extra-low-voltage lighting is included in the scope of the
You can read part P online at
but here's a summary, much snipped, of Table 2 as it applies to both
you and the OP:
Work that need not be notified to building control bodies:
Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve
a special installation
Work not in a special location on Telephone or extra-low voltage
wiring and equipment for the purposes of communications, information
technology, signalling, control and similar purposes
Locations containing a bath tub or shower basin
Swimming pools or paddling pools
Hot air saunas
Garden lighting or power installations
Extra-low voltage lighting installations, other than pre-assembled,
CE-marked lighting sets
Extra-low voltage is defined in BS 7671 as normally not exceeding 50
V ac or 120 V ripplefree dc, whether between conductors or to earth.
Yes, that was it ... a Part P competent 'spark' can self-certify it, a
'normal' electrician can do it, but then a fee is payable to have it
inspected, or you do it yourself, and report it to the appropriate
department, whereby a fee may be payable, or something. I was advised not to
do it myself as *should* there be a fire etc caused by the electrics, the
insurance company wouldn't even consider the claim based on the fact the
installation wasn't/ may not be certified. I can understand it if I'm
sticking bare wires in a fusebox, but this is feeding a low voltage cable
through the wall, plugging it into a transformer, and then plugging that
into a wall socket!
Apparently, as I think you mention in a latter post, certificates of
installations are something solicitors will no doubt be asking for in house
However, i see that "pre-assembled" is mentioned in garden lighting, which I
suppose mine is, except I have to put the bulbs in, feed the cable through
into the house, and then plug it into a transformer, the latter then into
the wall. Is the "pre-assembled" enough?
My main fuse unit isn't RCD'd I don't think though?
I wonder how many people are actually killed or seriously injured each year
by low voltage lighting? All the time you have B&Q, Homebase etc selling the
stuff, you are going to get the DIY'er doing it, so I doubt these regs will
really put a complete stop to it.
Going OT for a bit, why this over-use of the prefix "pre-" with everything
these days..? Surely something is either assembled or it isn't..?! Pre-
means before, doesn't it..? So something that's pre-assembled is before
assembly, in other words not assembled at all..?!!
It's like this "pre-ordering" that bookshops seem to like, particularly
when it comes to Harry Potter books for some reason. If I go into a shop
and want to buy something, if they have it, I buy it. If they don't, I may
well order it. Where does the "pre-" bit come in..?!
By faulty *wiring*, an average of 0.8 deaths per year, according to the
Government's own Regulatory Impact Assessment produced as part of the
pseudo-consultation process before Part P.
Deaths by faulty appliances and extension leads are far higher. The use
of extension leads will rise as a result of Part P. This possible
increase in fatalities was not taken into account in the RIA.
It's not my attitude, it's the way that last post made me feel. I came here
looking for advice on one thing, quite clearly explaining what i wanted to
do, and seems some went off in other directions involving all sorts.
The external cable you proposed to use is superior to Cat 5 for this
application. The signal has come several kilometers on cable of
exactly the same specification. Replacing the last few yards with
Cat5 will give no performance improvement and a less robust cable.
It will, perfectly. As I said before though you would be better
running only the two pairs (no ringing line) and using master sockets
at the far end.
Incidentally for fixing the cable to the wall I suggest you look at
www.screwfix.co.uk and search for item 89484. For what they are they
are expensive (12p a clip) but they are so much faster, neater and
easier to use than any other form of cable holder in brickwork that
they are well worth it.
Peter Parry WPP Ltd http://www.wpp.ltd.uk
Antenna solutions for car, caravan, house, office, boat and tent.
CW1128 is designed for installation in underground ducts, protected from
mechanical damage but prone to waterlogging. I don't know how resistant
to UV the polyethylene insulation would be in an exposed location, but I
guess it should last a few years at least. If you wanted to be safe, you
could put it into plastic conduit, which is fairly cheap: you could then
get away with using internal cable.
CW1378 is normally used for above-ground "drop-wire" but I don't think
it comes above 3 pair.
The line for ADSL would be run straight from the house outlet without
filtering. If you want a telephone outside, either use another filter
in the summerhouse or run a line from the house's filter over another
cable pair, so you have both filtered and unfiltered extensions.
The fax line wouldn't need a master socket or 3rd wire if it's outgoing
only, so 2 wires (1 pair) to a secondary would be OK, though it would be
wise to allow for a change of use later.
Personally, I would not run any Cat 3 cable anywhere nowadays.
I would put in a number of Cat 5e runs, which you can use for
phone or network (and an increasing number of other purposes).
It should work OK.
Actually, you should run only 1-pair per extension over a shared
cable like this, interconnecting pins 2 and 5 only, and use master
sockets rather than extension sockets at the far end to recreate
the bell wire on pin 3.
You need to think where your ADSL filter(s) go. You could have one
filter at the BT master socket handling all the extensions and
carry the ADSL signal in a 3rd pair, although the premises cable
total length might degrade the ADSL signal more than multiple ADSL
However, as I said earlier, I would run a number of Cat5e cables
rather than running any Cat 3.
Pass. I haven't measured accurately, but less than 50 metres.
The proposed cable is for phone, albeit ADSL as well.
No networking at all.
Simple telephone extensions, but to an outside location, hence why I
want the right cable, and cable I can hopefully run 2 lines down.
Any further networking - back to the house - will be wireless. I know I
could do it the other way, house to garden, but for my own reasons, I
want wired to the summerhouse, and then anything requiring access in the
house (my laptop) would connect wirelessly from a wireless access point
mounted in the summerhouse.
Unless someone knows of a stand alone wireless access point that has a
built in hub?
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