Boise "I" Beams

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"dpb"> wrote

Why? Because it seems to be a weak link. Yes, I have a problem with welds too. When I worked for the largest steel bldg manuf in the SE US an engineer told me that when a steel building fails the welds are the first things that are suspect. Its true that welds are stronger than the material around them but they are also more brittle and therefore more susceptible to stress. Rather than glues and welds I prefer mechanical fasteners. But in the realm of design and construction I don't always get to have my way.
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Don wrote:

Whether a weld is more brittle or not depends on much other than simply being a weld. I'd hazard a speculation that just as in the subject case, the prime root cause of a weld failure will be, in essence, a manufacturing defect although far more often the "manufacturing" in the case of welding is on-site rather than factory, the parallel is essentially complete imo.
There are failures in fasteners and fastener systems, too. The upshot is, no system is perfect either in manufacture nor installation. One can try to achieve it, and failures are, overall, remarkably few, but some have occurred and others will in the future despite our best efforts to avoid them.
A blanket condemnation of any particular system (other than truly egregious blunders, of course) is not a productive solution or proposal.
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"dpb"> wrote

Of course. Thats why they make consultants. ;-) FWIW: I've used prolly several thousand miles worth of plywood-n-glue joists in the homes I've designed. A little bit o' glue and a personal hang-up won't stop be from doing my job. heh
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Don wrote:

The bigger issue isn't with welds per se, it is with welders. Making high quality welds in the fields isn't always easy and the variability of field welds can be high. Shop welds are pretty reliable. Bolts are reliable also because they are made in factories and are pretty tolerant at installation.
Matt
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"Matt Whiting"> wrote

There ya go, human error. Happens all the time. My brother was a *mechanic* on the carrier Midway during the Iran thing in the early 80's and his job was to run continuous magnaflux scans on the welds in the hull, inside and out. He told me that they made simultaneous welds, inside and outside cause the steel was so thick, and variances can occur. Back in the old days they just lapped the stuff and riveted it. What alot of people might not know is that a large military ship is like a seive, there is water leaking into it all the time so they run bilge pumps 24/7. Apparently this is something thats inherent to the nature of the elements and the size of the vehicle.
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They also make compartments and fill them with concrete when the leaks get so bad.
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Do they use any rebar in that concrete?
:-)
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Nope, as it is all one well supported lump.
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RicodJour wrote:

A gentleman named Joe Barta provided the site for them when I built the house. I don't have a personal web site and posting pictures to a non-binaries group is a no-no so I'm not sure of a way to make them available.

I think it may depending on the community and the local needs. In a tornado zone it would seem to make a lot of sense.
Matt
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"Matt Whiting"> wrote

In alt.architecture everything is viable, post em.
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With a timber framed building, if the building is designed properly for ease of exit and fire containment, if fire does take hold after people are out, it is a matter of razing to the slab and erecting cheaply again. In the case of a school the building is isolated from others so danger of next door catching fire. In many cases with many products it is best to replace than repair (cars come to mind once major work is need when they are 5 to 7 years old.)

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RicodJour wrote: ...

Shelters against what? Whether every public building should be a shelter or not is certainly debatable. In tornado country out here, the interiors are built to be reasonably safe within the competing demands of size, functionality, and yes (shudder!) cost. Despite what some would think, there aren't unlimited resources for such projects. In general, it is more the responsibility of individuals to provide their own protection unless at a location at the time of the event that isn't their domicile. In that case, it's prudent to make those facilities reasonably safe, but not practical to ensure complete safety under all possible scenarios.
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For most shelters, I don't think the purpose of the shelter is to protect people during the event, it is for afterwards. You need to keep some infrastructure & housing in place for those unfortuneate enough to have their homes destroyed.
dpb wrote:

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Bob Morrison wrote:

Combustion is an issue, but so is yielding of steel beams in a fire.
Matt
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In a building with people in it, it is a matter of retaining a fire long enough for evacuation. Huf Haus in Germany have wooden suspended floors and a cement screed on top to give that solid feel - and it also retains fire as well.
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John wrote:

What is the benefit of that system over a precast concrete plank floor system?
R
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Lighter and probably cheaper too. Also sound or thermal insulating materials can be inserted in the voids. Gives thermal mass too in a lightweight wooden building. No heavy cranes needed, etc. A wooden "I" beam can have one man fit and lift. Try that with concrete or steel.
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John wrote:

I haven't seen too many schools built by small crews. The size of the building requires cranes of one sort or another. Sound transmission, except at very low frequencies (structurally transmitted sounds such as machine vibrations), decreases with increased mass. Thermal insulating materials and thermal mass are not necessary between occupied floors. The precast plank floor would go up faster than a framed floor with a lightweight concrete topping. Et Cetera.
R
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wrote in message

The OP has never stated what *type* of school this is so both of us, all of us, may be going down the wrong path. It could very well be a small school built by a church, which is very common in FL, or other private agencies.
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Don wrote:

The original post had a link. On that page you can see the temporary classrooms next to the _biggest_ basketball court I've ever seen in my life. <= joke The school building in question is in the background - small picture, not a small school.
R
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