Boise "I" Beams

[marcenmoni]

I compared a PDF from the Italian website:

to the American one: and came up with the following salient points:

Total number of fires on average in Italy over past 6 years (1996-2002) : 190,000/year. As above for US: 1,800,000/year. As a percentage of total population, that's 190,000/55,000,000 to

1,800,000/280,000,000 or .0034 Italian fires per Italian to .0064 US fires per American- a difference of 1 to 2 (the US has twice as many fires as Italy, on average).

Of the 1,800,000 roughly 570,000 are structure fires, the bulk of these being residential (24% of the total or 432,000.) Per the spreadsheet under residential fire webpage, 26% are caused by cooking, 11% caused by heating elements; 36% listed as 'unknown'.

In Italy, of the 190,000 fires listed, they have stats on only 50,000 which seem directly relatable to buildings ("seems" is the key word; the PDF by the Vigili del Fuoco lists 108,000 fires as 'unknown' so it's impossible to get a good statistic). Of the 50,000 detailed ones,

26% were caused by faulty electrical circuitry, 14% by chimneys and another 14% by cigarettes (versus 2% in the US, which works out to 8,640 cigarette fires, versus the 7,300 cigarette fires in Italy, but Italians smoke more than Americans, maybe even 5 to 1, which would make these numbers equitable on a population basis... 8640/280000000 x 5 to 7300/55,000,000 means .0001 smoking related fires per person whether in Italy or US.)

So the causes of the fires varies from population to population, and as I noted is primarily based on people's awareness, independant of type of construction, especially given the primary types of causes listed. It would seem from the stats above, for instance, that Americans have a hard time keeping their eyes on the stove/toaster/microwave, while Italians are crappy electricians and don't know how to clean/handle a chimney (surprisingly).

Marcello

[Pat]

[marcenmoni]

Addendum. At

you'll find two pdfs dealing with school fires, the leading cause of which is incendiary (arson) or suspicious (kids smoking?). Most fires are outside. Those inside tend to start in bathrooms. But fire sprinklers and fire alarms apparently save the day in nearly all cases.

Marcello

[Don]

"Pat"> wrote

Me too.

[Don]

"Matt Whiting"> wrote

In alt.architecture everything is viable, post em.

[Don]

80% of all fires in homes in FL are generated in the range or air handler so fire suppression system mandated in these 2 areas would render the fire authorities obsolete. Why don't the code officials address this issue?

[John]

~420 pupils. A small picture of it here. Two floors with the hall the full height and steel framed. Not timber frame in the accepted sense. I "believe" some sort of pre-fabbed cassette walls with wooden "I" beams. The south side is brick clad and the north side wood clad.

The local council has a good eco record and had Energy Village in the early

1980s. A collection of experimental eco homes. Some of them highly advanced for the time (when the first superinsulated home without a full heating system went on the market the estate agent dropped the asking price as it never had a heating system). Hence going "eco" timber frame.

[John]

Sound insulation materials often are, usually high density thermal insulation which is cheaper and not far off sound deadening material.

In this instance, have on a sort of cassette wall structure concrete suspended floors may have bee too heavy.

Thermal mass is important, especially in a light framed building. It can be added here and there, and the floors is one place. The ground floor is solid with insulation under, so thermal mass there.

[John]

With a timber framed building, if the building is designed properly for ease of exit and fire containment, if fire does take hold after people are out, it is a matter of razing to the slab and erecting cheaply again. In the case of a school the building is isolated from others so danger of next door catching fire. In many cases with many products it is best to replace than repair (cars come to mind once major work is need when they are 5 to 7 years old.)

[John]

In the UK fire vehicles do not sound their sirens unless they want other road users to get out the way at junctions. The traffic lights are changed to green in their favour in many cities. Many may get to a call and not sound the siren at all.

Also in the UK there are the strictest electrical regulations in the world (others may equal), with now fitting only by registered electricians. Also the same with gas.

Electrical appliances to EU code are also far safer than decades past.

[John]

About right. Some of the electrical installations I see in Latin countries is amazing. In Spain the lighting wiring was twisted bell wire in some places - Italy not much better. Overloaded circuits is common as they undersize wire to save money.

There is a distinct difference between the south and north of Europe to safety and regulation. The Latins ignore regulations as few of them are policed. Regulations and directives issued from the UE from Brussels equally ignored. Prosecutions are rare indeed. Someone mentioned that some buildings are erected without planning permission or probably Building Control (building inspector). In the UK this just can't happen. If a building is being erected without PP it will be stopped immediately and they would be told to demolish in most cases - we have problems with people from third world countries who think the UK is like where they come from, and when they are told otherwise they still go on (deportation job to me, as you do things our way). If a building or extension does mange to be erected they will be told to vacate that part and demolish. If they do not the council demolish and charge the owner, if they cannot pay they possess the property, sell and take their expenses from that. Latin countries in many respects are third world when it comes to building services and safety regulations.

If someone is hurt because of poor stair, ingress and egress design, they blame the victim for not looking. Designing out problems is way down the list, economy and looks is all.

[John]

Sounds like poorly designed and made appliances. I noticed in some US a/c appliances the connections were "wire nuts". It would never get past the Euro CE stamp.

[John]

I would worry at any Boise joists. A gut feeling tells me that I'm sure this incorrect glue mixing is not a one off.

[Don]

"John"> wrote

Not at all. People set a pot of grub on the range and walk in the other room to pick up a phone call and forget the grubs cooking. People forget to clean the intake grill of the air conditioner, leave it on and then go to work, the motor overheats. Human error.

[John]

An air flow sensor that shuts down when the flow is below a certain rate would solve that. Also no motor overheat protection too. Sound like poorly designed appliances here.

[Don]

You can make stuff foolproof but you can't make stuff idiotproof. Most people's ranges and airhandlers do not catch fire so there is no need to make everyone pay for stuff (air flow sensors, overheat protection) that they'll never use.

[John]

Most protection devices are never used, they are a safety net. Those items are cheap.

[Don]

Everything's cheap, until you're forced to buy 100 of them. Common sense is free and its the ultimate safety device. Nook the Whales!

[John]

Only one per unit.

[Don]

If they're that cheap then you shouldn't have a problem with paying for them. ALL of them. heh Whats that, you don't want to pay for all of them? Well I don't want to pay for them either, not even one of them. The diff is, YOU want them and I don't. You see John, I keep my a/c filter clean and I don't talk on the phone while cooking so your so called safety nets won't help me. Conversely, even if there are 100 safety nets on every single thing there will still be idiots doing stupid things.

Onward.