Removing Attic Cross Beams

[cordator]

I am helping a friend with a project. He has a raised ranch style home, I believe. There is a basement, one main floor, and an attic. The attic has no exterior walls other than that on each end. It is just the pitched roof up there.

He wants to take out the attic floor and create vaulted ceilings for half of the house with a loft on the other half. I don't know if he should really remove all of the cross beams and risk the integrity of exterior walls.

Is there some solid advice or formula for such a project?

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[Steve Barker]

Your "crossbeams" are actually called ceiling joists. And you are correct. He does NOT want to just start ripping them out. They are an integral part of the roof support design. (not so much supporting the walls, but forming the third leg of the triangle that makes up the roof). He'll need another way to support that roof if he takes them out.

[Steve Barker]

Oh, and as for the "loft" area, well he'll need to consider that his ceiling joists are probably 2x4 (maybe 2x6) and neither are rated for a live load if they are over 4' long or maybe 6' long if they are 2x6.

[v8z]

Before destroying the structure of the house and risking a collapse of the roof and walls, your friend should pop a couple of hundred $ and hire a structural engineer/architect to look at the home and create a plan for the safe modifications if they are possible. If structural changes are made without plans & permits, not only are you risking life and limb, but will also void homeowners coverage and open the owner up to huge liability potential when the stucture fails.

And to answer in advance - no I am not a structural engineer or architect. I'm a homeowner who just finished designing and building a new home, which had the participation of a certified engineer for the structural design.

[PeterD]

Yes, he will have problems, as the roof will try to push the walls out away from the house's center line. He will need somthing to strengthen the structure. Some go with a stronger (much stronger) ridgepole (most of these houses have a simple 2x8 ridgepole), going to a big beam, supported well at both ends, might work.

He could also consider building in trusses but that would be a major project (either solution is non-trivial).

[RicodJour]

Sure. Here's the formula:

Desire for a vaulted ceiling + hired help engineering =3D successful project

There are a number of ways to do what your...ahem...friend wants to do

- structural ridge, tie cables or rods, rare earth magnetically- levitated roof, etc. What is the best approach depends on your, or your friend's, budget and taste. The more open it is, the more expensive it will be.

You'll find all sorts of stuff on the internet about opening up ceilings and creating cathedral ceilings, but you'll need someone to sign off on the plans when you go for the building permit anyway, so bite the bullet and call an engineer or two. BTW, this is probably _not_ the project that you, or your friend, want to go commando on and not pull a permit - it requires experience.

R

[jloomis]

[Rui Maciel]

Yes, don't do it unless you absolutely know what you are doing. Even structural engineers cringe at the idea of removing structural elements from a pre-existing structure.

Rui Maciel

[PeterD]

Rare earth matnetically levitated... Man, I've got to get me one of those!

Personally I think the owner will be (if he has to do this project) best off by pulling off everything, putting in trusses that give a cathedrial look, and going from there.

Most split entry houses are not worth that level of work! (And I know, he's describing my house exactly--split entry raised ranch.) I toyed with the idea myself to give the smallish living room more volume and character, looked as how the house was built, and realized I'd be ripping off the roof and probably investing more for the change than the house cost new! There are much better places to spend my money, like my 1800 sqft garage and man cave (which does have a cathredial ceiling, if you want to call it that!)

[tmurpha1hi]

If you are talking about wooden beams near the top of the rafters then these may be what are known as collar beams and they are important. They often are found on every second or third rafter depending on the pitch of the roof. Get professional help.

[willshak]

cordator wrote the following:

Where I come from those 'cross beams' are called 'collar ties'. Just sayin'.

[jloomis]

[Steve Barker]

OK as described, they are ceiling joists, not collar ties. Collar ties are typically ABOVE your head (or about eye level) if you are standing in the attic. As described, this guy was talking about the "beams" (ceiling joists) he was standing on.

[jloomis]

[RicodJour]

Huh? They may have similar functions, at times, but they are not located in the same place. The OP could clarify this, but I am pretty certain that his sloppy terminology is creating some confusion. The only way that collar ties could also be ceiling joists is if the room below had a partially vaulted ceiling - almost certainly not the case as the OP mentioned standing in the attic.

But please, no in-fighting over terminology. Stick to the tried and true insulting of ancestors if you must fight. ;)

R

[jloomis]

OK: similiar functions..... is what I meant.....

Huh? They may have similar functions, at times, but they are not located in the same place. The OP could clarify this, but I am pretty certain that his sloppy terminology is creating some confusion. The only way that collar ties could also be ceiling joists is if the room below had a partially vaulted ceiling - almost certainly not the case as the OP mentioned standing in the attic.

But please, no in-fighting over terminology. Stick to the tried and true insulting of ancestors if you must fight. ;)

R