We've been shopping for new counter tops, exclusively looking at the standard "stone" options - quartz, quartzite, marble, soapstone, etc.
Having not yet come across "the one", we've started doing some research into wooden countertops. While not excluding butcher block, I think we know enough about butcher block that we don't need to do much research on that specific product. It's all the other options that we are curious about.
Does anyone have any first-hand experience with wooded countertops? Pro & cons - beyond the need to refinish occasionally? Best types of wood, installation concerns, etc. FWIW I have stick-build cabinets, built in the 50's. Adding blocking or corner bracing, etc. to support any type of counter top would be quite simple.
Ping Leon - Some of the wooden counter websites mention the Rubio Monocoat products since it's food safe and easy to refinish. As you and I know, it's a breeze to work with.
No experience with wood countertops. So I should not even be responding. But I am. Plastic laminate was used as the standard countertop from the 1950s up through the 1980s. And it worked just fine. Yes you had to use a hot pad underneath pots you took off the stove. And you had to use a cutting board when using a knife on the countertop. But those are just common sense things you should do anyway. And plastic laminate countertops worked fine for 30-40 years. Then fancy solid surface appeared and it was all the rage. Then a few years later granite came along. And quartz is the new man made wonder material. All work fine as countertops. So wood would work just fine too. You would need to be sort of careful with it like plastic laminate.
But, plastic laminate does have one big advantage over wood. It is waterproof. Water does not harm plastic laminate at all. With wood, even with a finish, coating on it, is susceptible to water damage. Although maybe teak is sort of impervious to water. So you would have to be careful with water on a wood countertop. Wipe up spills immediately. Not let any water stand on the wood countertop.
A BIG BIG BIG negative with a wood countertop, and a plastic laminate countertop, is the inability to do an undermounted sink. That would throw wood right out the door for me. I had an undermounted sink in my prior house. I would never ever go back to a top mounted stainless steel sink like you have with plastic laminate countertops. So easy to wipe water into the sink with an undermounted sink. For me, and maybe just me, but if a kitchen does not have an undermount sink, and is still using the old time drop in sink, then its not a nice kitchen. I don't care how fancy the cabinets or countertops are. If the kitchen is missing the most important functional detail, undermount sink, then I won't be happy.
[delurk] I have no real experience either, but been pondering this for a future renovation so interested in this thread. However I did stay in an AirBNB with wood countertops recently.
The wooden countertops there were showing water discolouration around the sink. The wood itself was in good shape (not rotten or anything). The AirBNB in general hadn't been very well cared for so I have no idea how long the kitchen had been left unmaintained like that.
This does give me pause about wood, although I'm not sure how much of a problem it is if done right.
The current UK fashion is a porcelain sink in a wooden countertop, with 'draining board' grooves routed into it:
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I think this is a bad idea because it's inviting water onto the surface, and draining dishes is a constant source of fresh water to sit around (it never drains perfectly, and limescale etc builds up)
You can get a separate drainer:
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a sink with one integrated:
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might be a better plan.
Is water soaking into the endgrain a problem?
I wonder if you could achieve that just by recessing the sink slightly - route a rebate (rabbet) so that the metal sink is flush with the surface?
I agree, although I like the old-school concept. I have a double sink porcelain basin with a built-in drainboard on either side which is 60" long. It's not in my kitchen, but it's sitting in my garage, with a rusty "Youngstown Kitchens" metal cabinet below it. I've been meaning to sand it down and restore it. I might even install it into my kitchen.
When my father built his cabin on the river (combining three 150 year old log cabins), he used some reclaimed bowling alley lane material (maple) for the kitchen island surface, which had a built-in sink (not undermounted). Neither he nor I would make the same choice today (25 years later).
So here is my experience with wood in the kitchen. I made a sliding cutting board to fit over our sink. Hot pans get set on the cutting board and it leaves scorch marks.
As you know, wood will be a maintenance item. Knife cut marks will show. Dents will show.
We are right in the same situation as you. We are choosing Quartz.
With wood I would do the cutting board style, multiple face to face pieced glued together to guard against warping over time. Not flat boards like on a piece of furniture. ASLO prefinish the back edge and bottom before installation. You need to do a good job sealing around the sink area so that you don't have spots that water can hide and cause mold. I would not want an under mount sink at all with wood. Your cabinets are probably fine with out additional reinforcing for a wood counter top but if it is easy to do it can't hurt.
That said, I would consider at least hard maple and possibly Ipe. Walnut, Cherry, soft Maple will get dings with little effort.
With man made stone products, Quartz, you have little to no maintenance and it is repairable should you chip or break it. Typically Quartz comes in 2cm and 3cm thicknesses. Obviously the 2cm is less expensive if YOU are the fabricator and installer. You being the installer would be if you used 2cm and build up the edge to make the slab appear thicker, 4cm. If you are having quartz installed 3cm is stronger and less labor to install as it does not have to be built up. Also additional blocking/reinforcement under the slab is not needed. So in our case 4 separate tops the 3cm is going to be less than the 2cm, less work and cabinet prep.
With the understanding that the wood counter top will require regular maintenance, I would also use Rubio. It will be the easiest to refinish should you need to sand out marks, dents, or burns. Keep in mind that Rubio, once opened, has about a 2 year life span, so don't buy more than you need for the first time around and maybe buy smaller bottles/cans for future repairs. This stuff comes in 2 oz sample bottles and that could probably be enough to do a repair. This stuff goes a looooong way.
FWIW I'm considering using Rubio for out cabinet doors and drawer fronts, walnut rails and stiles with white oak pin stripes. White Oak book matched plywood center panels.
One other thing, if you "ever" think you want to replace the sink, now might be the time to do it especially if going with under mount.
A reason (or reasons) why would be helpful to this discussion.
As a young adult (more than 25 years ago) we used to frequent a club that that was housed in a former bowling alley. Instead of buying tables, they simply cut the lanes into various sizes and made tables and 2 bars with them. They had everything from small tables for 4 to really long tables for 10 or more on each side.
They had one bar in the front of the establishment and one in the (huge) back room where the bands performed. Twisted Sister was a "local band" back them and was a regular at the club.
As you may recall, I used the Rubio Hybrid exterior finish on the sectional I built for the deck. I do indeed know how "long" of a way this product goes. I also know how easy it is to apply and repair, having done both. In my case, I finished each board individually before assembly and then touched up the plugs afterwards. Everything just blended together. Love that stuff! ;-)
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Oh, the sink is definitely going. It's a very old drop-in porcelain coated sink with the metal band around it. As far as I know, it's original to the
65+ YO house. No way I'm dropping $K's on a counter top and not replacing the sink.
So you are likely going to be spending a pretty penny for the counter tops.
And if you go with an under mount you might consider a "work station" style sink. We are going from an under mount SS double bowl to an under SS single bowl work station. If you have the room, you might consider that option too. My wife thought she wanted to go back with the double sink but after many friends going to the single sink over the double they have said never again on the double. More room to clean/wash larger pots and pans.
We/I remodeled our previous kitchen and went with a cast iron self r****ng Kohler sink. It was a huge double and weighed about 150 lbs. Never again.
Do people actually cut things directly on their countertops? I've always had laminated chipboard, and that's not robust to knives or heat. You use chopping boards and heat resistant pan stands.
Laminate isn't robust against denting either (although perhaps the chipboard is more so than a softwood), but usually the way they fail is the edging strips peel off.
To me the attraction of wood is those marks can be sanded out, whereas with another type the marks are permanent. Although it's a tradeoff about ease of refinishing to remove marks against being resistant to marks in the first place.
That is one thing to think about - later on, if you have to replace the sink without replacing the countertop, whether it'll fit the old cutout or how easy it is to make a new cutout. Obviously it'll be harder to make the cutout smaller further down the road.
(in one place, the sink was enamelled steel and the enamel got chipped and later wore through. Pressed stainless steel sinks also seem to bend out of shape so they don't drain properly. I'd probably consider a composite ceramic sink in future, which seems to last better as long as you don't drop heavy things in it)
If it's one of these, that's called a hudee ring (metal), and you actually have an under-mount sink. My father didn't believe me when he was removing his, from the late 1950s... until he had most of the brackets underneath removed, and the sink nearly fell on his head. He thought the little brackets held the ring in place... uh, no, those be the under-mount sink brackets.
You are correct. Right after I typed "drop in" and hit send I realized that I had had one of those "I know what I said but it's not what I meant" moments.
I figured since the sink is going away anyway, it doesn't matter, so I didn't post a correction. ;-) But you are correct, I have the brackets and I know what they are for.
If the counter top is a giant cutting board, possibly so.
There is that and the size of the supporting cabinet below will dictate the size of the new sink.
There are several grades of SS. I can easily imagine some denting and bending. But our SS sink is 12 years old and has no dents or dings. The sink that we are looking at as a replacement is 16 gauge SS. vs the thinner versions.
I can't really add much to what's already been said about wood but if you love it, just learn to care for it properly.
Have several family and friends who insisted on granite. At least one regrets it now. He inisisted he had to be able to put hot pots and pans on it with no worries. Told him not a good idea. Fast forward 4 years. Now they're prepping for house resale and replacing half the counters due to huge cracks caused by hot stuff.
Does heat expansion affect granite? Results show that with increasing temperature, the uneven thermal expansion and thermal shock effect of minerals promote crack development, leading to increases in the porosity and permeability of granite, particularly at temperatures above 450°C.
He refused to talk to me about house stuff ever again. It was either when I told him his contractor hung the hanging lamps too close to the end cabinets so they could not open all the way. (He never bothered to have them fixed.) Or when I said wood handled knives in the dishwasher was bad. (He went thru 3 knife sets in that 4 years.) Live and learn.
If not, I wonder why he “had to be able to put hot pots and pans” on his counter top.
SWMBO loves to cook and often has all 4 gas burners going. Turn them off, leave the pots where they are. No problem. On the rare occasion when she needs a burner and all the pots are hot, there’s a gazillion way to protect the counter top from the heat.
Really curious about what his insistence was all about.
P.S. Our next range will be duel fuel model. 5 burner gas stovetop with an electric oven. All the convenience of a gas stovetop with the even heat of an electric oven.
My wife learned to cook on gas, but wanted it and never had gas until 12 years ago. We got rid of gas about 3 years ago. She went induction for the top and convection for the bottom. Cabinets stay cleaner with out the residue that comes with cooking with gas.
Her is why. Induction boils water faster than gas. If you have a spill it is easy to clean up "Immediately" with a paper towel. The cook top remains relatively cool, just the pan heats up. The surface is smooth. When she saw a demo of heating to boil a pan of up water on top of a paper towel and the water spilling over onto the towel she was sold. The guy lifted the pan of boiling water grabbed the paper towel and wiped the water off of the surface. Nothing bakes on the surface. Best of all the CO2 levels in our home don't go up cooking with electricity. I was shocked how much CO2 built up while she was cooking with gas, and that was measured from the living room. Food for thought.
He never really gave me a clear answer for the hot stuff on counters. I suspect it was because his previous home had formica and it got heavily burnt from pots? Never saw a trivit in the house.
His stove was a hi-end pro gas unit.
He was insistant on a few things, like knives with wood handles able to go into the dishwasher (warranty was denied). Or having a garbage disposal he could put everything into including bones (replaced after
6 mos). Or a specific car (BMW6) which had the driver seat heat up so much it burned holes in itself and his coat.
I stopped having conversations with him about such things because it only seemed to frustrate and irritate him into hostile reactions.
He was stubborn fellow who sadly passed away last year at age 60, roughly 2 years after his wife who passed at 59.
Yes! But just stepping away from the cook top and back creates a breeze far greater than the suction at the cook top level. This was witnessed by steam coming up from the pots and not being sucked into the vent. And yes the filters were not clogged.
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