Who said Marples chisels are any good???

[Larry C in Auburn, WA]

I was just looking through some old FWW mags and ran across an article on chisels in the Dec/1999, issue 139. They looked at 17 different chisels and tested their hardness and toughness. It might be worth looking at if you have a copy although it's 4 years old now.

FWIW, they ranked the Marples Blue Chip as coming in 16th out of the 17 chisels tested, IOW almost dead last. Craftsman came in 9th. The chisels that tested best for toughness were White Steel ($32 for a 1/2" chisel) first, then Blue Steel ($38 for a 1/2" chisel), and in third was Iyori ($156 for a set of 4 chisels).

Double FWIW, the Craftsman rated better for toughness than Japan Woodworker (10th), Garrett Wade (11th), Robert Sorby Gilt-Edge (12th), Lee Valley (13th), Robert Sorby Octagonal (14th), Stanley 5002 (15th), Marples Blue Chip (16th), and Pfeil (17th).

Again, this test is now 4 years old and they were only testing current models of chisels and they didn't test all models (e.g. Marples Protech), but maybe this helps explain why your Sears holds up better than your Marples.

[Jim Wilson]

Tell you what, Dave. Send me your ProTouch chisel and I'll test it for you. I am reasonably confident that a thorough examination of the specific tool in question will reveal the reason it didn't perform well. If it has a correctable problem, I'll fix it.

Either way, I'll return it to you. There's a very good chance the mystery will be resolved, and you might even get a better tool back than you bought. Although it is highly unlikely that I'll harm the tool in any substantial way [1], if I do somehow manage to damage it, I'll gladly repay you its purchase price.

See? There *is* such a thing as a free lunch. Well, you pay postage, ok?

Cheers!

Jim

[1] The hardness tester leaves a tiny dimple at the test point. I expect to do that particular test in probably four or five places. It is possible that I'll need to test the face (or do you call it the back?) near the edge, in which case I'll restore that area to flat. Any other test marks will be left behind, as they will not impair the tool's function.

[Mike Hide]

No but perhaps a bad batch may have got through inspection, If you are dealing with a reputable supplier they will probably either exchange them or give you uour money back. mjh

[Bay Area Dave]

Larry, THANK YOU for this info! I started my subscription to FWW about a year ago so that one isn't in my library. Nice to see that their test ing bears out my very LIMITED experience with the Pro touch vs the one Sears venerable chisel that has survived from the 70's.

Did they give a rating for "Best Buy"?

dave

Larry C > I was just looking through some old FWW mags and ran across an article on

[Bay Area Dave]

I'd send it to you, but I've gotten a refund on it already. :)

Nice try, Jim!

dave

Jim Wils> Bay Area Dave wrote...

[Larry C in Auburn, WA]

Nope.

[Wm Gardner]

While we are on the subject of Japanese chisels, has anyone tried that set offered by Grizzly? From what you can tell in a catalog they look and sound pretty good but the price seems too good to be true. Has anyone out there taken the chance?

Thanks in advance, Bill

[charlie b]

In the event that anyone's unaware of who Jim Wilson is and why Dave missed a great opportunity - Jim made the mortising chisels Steve Knight carried. He's a tool maker and knows his stuff. I recall that he's gotten back into making his mortising chisels again after a hiatus. Can't find the new url but here's his old one. Perhaps he'll provide his new url

I'm certain that when you got your chisel back it'd be sharper than you could make it and the back would be dead flat.

As for his mortising chisels - well you can try one out when the lock miter joints are done :)

charlie b

[Roy Smith]

I tried to order a set from him a couple of months ago. His response was that he's back out again. He's finishing up the backlog of orders he's got and not taking any new orders.

[Ian Dodd]

Yes, SWMBO gave me the set of 10 last Christmas. Before using them I spent a little time sharpening them (using the scary sharp system). Once I had put an edge on the 1" chisel, I used it to shave off some end grain from a scrap of maple. Sweet! Now, I can't really compare them to the Marples since these were my first chisels, but I can say that after a year they are still a pleasure to use.

Ian

[Bay Area Dave]

cool!

dave

charlie b wrote:

[Jim Wilson]

Hi, Charlie, and thank you for your kind words!

Roy's right. I had to stop taking orders again in October. I was able to get a few hundred chisels out over the summer but had to shut down soon after, owing once again to lack of time. I sure love making tools, but haven't yet been able to set aside enough time to it to keep pace with demand. Unfortunately, I still have other commitments that prevent me from devoting all my time to tool making. Perhaps someday...

The pages are still intact, and that's as good a start point as any. Folks interested in making their own chisels might find some useful information. The mortise chisel pages start at

Cheers!

Jim

[Wm Gardner]

Thanks for the input Ian. Just had that phrase ("if is sounds too good to be true.....") running around in my head. Better to hear of someone else's experience.

Bill

[Myxylplyk]

If the demand is that great, why not do it full time? No or low profit?

Myx

[Jim Wilson]

Well, profit is controllable, and it could be used to moderate demand, too, but income isn't the real issue for me. It's time.

In order to keep pace with demand and maintain control of the time spent on tool making, I would have to change my methods a bit. I would need to hire employees, subcontract parts, deal with vendors, purchase and use more modern equipment and production methods, manage retail channels, and so on. In short, I'd need to start running a company again.

Now, there's nothing wrong with running a company, if that's what you want to spend your time doing, or if you are trying to earn an income. It's a great way to make a living, especially if you are a hard-working and diligent person. But it's not how I want to spend my days at this point in my life. There are too many other things I'd rather do with the time. One of them is making tools. (G)

One potential solution that I've been considering is to handle things more like an art studio than a manufacturer. Instead of taking and fulfilling orders for copies of tools that I've made in the past, I could get back to making interesting and new (to me) things, perhaps filling the occasional commission. I would like to keep the prices low enough that my tools can be purchased by folks who will actually put them to good use. Unfortunately, it's hard to do that in a cottage industry, without giving things away.

Cheers!

Jim

[Lawrence Wasserman]

Aw, cut the poor guy some slack for change.

[Scott Wilson]

Interesting that Pfeil would come in last. I have a set, they take an edge and hold up just fine. Anyone else used these and think they're the worst?

Scott Wilson

[Mike Dembroge]

Charlie could not be more correct in his description of Jim Wilson & Jim's work. I was able to sneak an order in earlier this year, and the chisels Jim made for me are outstanding. Jim was also a pleasure to work with in his handling of my order and the delays due to back orders and some other glitches. The chisels Jim makes are well worth the money IMO.

Mike Dembroge

[Layne]

I've the chisels you mention, but have not tried them. Japanese are like any other tool when it comes to value. You usually get what you pay for. I wouldn't doubt that the chisels offered by Grizzly are okay, but they were probably made by lesser craftsmen. It takes an apprentice years to learn just how to work the metals so that the chisel has all the right working qualities. You might want to take a look at the Mastumura chisels offered by JapanWoodworker.com. You'll get a handcrafted Japanese chisel made by a bonafide master chiselmaker. They're a great value. Then you can drool over the other chisels like those made by Tasai. When you get to that level you're not just buying a tool you're buying a work of art.

Layne ps, usual disclaimers apply.

[Larry C in Auburn, WA]

Not necessarily unless you include marketing & hype as part of what you pay for. This is a really long thread, but in one of my answers I mentioned a FWW chisel test from issue #139 Dec/99. They measured hardness and toughness of 17 chisels. A couple of comparisons that might be interesting:

The most expensive chisels ("you get what you pay for", right?) were ones from Barr Specialty Tools at about $75 per chisel. These had a Rockwell hardness of 61C and ranked 5th in toughness. Pretty disappointing for the most expensive tool tested. However, the article also pointed out the feel of it is a "delight to hold and behold".

A $20 chisel from Hirsch was even harder (59C) and ranked higher at 4th in toughness. So for $55 less per chisel you could get a harder and tougher chisel.

The least expensive chisel was from Sears at $6/chisel and ranked 9th in toughness with a hardness of 60C which wasn't too bad compared to the others.

In the test the top three spots went to Japanese chisels, but then down below the cheap Craftsman came another Japanese chisel so it wasn't a give that a Japanese chisel would outperform all others. I guess the bottom line is that you can't be sure the Grizzly chisel is good just because it's a Japanese chisel. OTOH, you can't be sure that it isn't good just because it costs less than expected.

I should point out that the article also came to the conclusion that none of the 17 chisels tested were "junk". They also came to the conclusion that it's probably more important how the chisel feels in your hand than it's toughness because the quality of the metal really just dictates how often you have to sharpen it. As the FWW article says "What's the point of buying a chisel made of super-tough steel if it feels lousy in your hand?" Seems like good advice.