What is this old car, with rounded shell, inch thick wood interior?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Fast, but could it make right turns?

[Leon]

You seem to be in over your head here.

[John McCoy]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:1oPBA.130787$ [e-mail]:

The turbo Offys didn't, but the engine was originally designed for dirt track (sprint) cars, and those engines ran on pump gas, as did the original Indy Offys. By the time turbos came in, gasoline had been banned at Indy for safety reasons, and all the engines ran on methanol.

If it was a turbo Offy, yes, altho poorly. Before the turbos the Indy Offy was a "lay down" design, with the crankcase on the right and the head on the left. Turning right with those engines would lead to lubrication failure.

The dirt car Offys turned right surprisingly well:

John

[J. Clarke]

Rather than explaining why they are required by "the laws of physics" rather than the laws of Congress, you start with the insults. Very good.

[J. Clarke]

So were the "sprint car Offys" running that 15:1 compression that was mentioned as one of the characteristics of the high output engine that was mentioned?

[clare]

But the C was a lot wider than an A, and a C 70 was about the same diameter as an A78. And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16 inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)

[John McCoy]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Not sure what relevance that has to anything, but no, those engines would have been around 10:1. Bearing in mind that this was late 30's to early

50's, and production car engines would have been 6:1 or less. (also bearing in mind that Offys were built to order, and they would happily make any compression ratio you wanted).

John

[Leon]

No insults, you simply do not know what changes came about in the automotive industry and the effects those changes made to emissions and HP. There were NO laws governing HP. Pollution control robbed high HP engines of their power. And as I mentioned several posts back, electronics and the abandonment of the carburetor brought back HP and lowered emissions.

[Leon]

About .5" or 8% wider.

and a C 70 was about the same

What is your point there?

Are you saying a 65 VW is not old? 52 years...

[J. Clarke]

Since the mention of Offenhausers was in the context of power per cubic inch on pump gasoline and the example used was an Offy with 15:1 compression it's very relevant that the example did not run on pump gas.

[J. Clarke]

And now you start with the straw men. Nobody asserted that there were laws governing horsepower. That's something that you're making up in an effort to derail the conversation.

And why did engines have pollution control?

Which nobody is disputing.

Why can't you just admit that the emission control systems came about because men passed laws and not because of any requirement of physics and quit wasting everybody's time?

[clare]

There were several "generations" of "offy" engines, starting with the Miller designed engine originally built and sold as a marine engine.. It was a 2.47 liter (151 cu inch?) engine in the late twenties. It was put in a land speed record car in 1930. In 1933 Offenhauser bought the rights to the engine.The design was refined and enlarged, and twas sold to Meyer and Drake in 1946.. It was under Meyer and Drake, and later just Drake, that the "offy" ruled Indy. The "Indy Offy" engines were built in 4 displacements -

4.4L, 270 inch for Indy racing under AAA rules, 4.18L, 255 inch during the '30s, 4.13L, 252 cu inch under USAC rules, 2.75 L, 168 inch for Turbos at indy up until 1968, and 2.61L,159 inch for Indy Turbo engines since 1969.

They also built a 1.59.liter,or 97 inch midget engine, and a 3.6L 220 inch Sprint car for both AAA and USAC rules.

These were the "stock" Offies - there were many custom versions for other uses. The Offy engine began as a copy of a Peugeot Gran Prix engine from about 1913..

The original Miller 250 was a 10:1 Compression Ratio engine producing

250HP at 5200RPM Thw 1958 Low Tower 255 ran 15:1.and 325HP @6600RPM The 69 159 ran 8:1 and 820HP at 9500 RPM with a turbo. The '74 version DGS and Offy/Drakes ran 8:1 and 1000 HP at 10,000RPM with Turbos. ALL of the Indy engines ran on Methanol.. Virtually all sprint cars also ran Methanol,, as did almost all USAC Midgets. I don't think there was a gasoline powered offy competition engine after at least the fifties.

[clare]

What was YOUR point with: IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow. The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

There is old and ther is OLD. And there is "narrow looking" and there is NARROW.

The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear with a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires. Most people who really DROVE a Vega GT didn't replace the tires with A70s. (there were quite a few C60 and D60 tires on Vegas and Astres around here. - and even 14 inchers with V6 and V8 transplants)

[clare]

And to the best of my knowlege virtually all Sprint and Indy engines have been running Methanol since the sixties, or even earlier.. LONG before the Turbo Indy engines.

[Markem]

It raced in cart races, saw it run at Road America Elkhart Lake Wisconsin. So yes it turn right.

[Leon]

You said,

I said

It was all about getting rid of carburetors and adding electronics. Those two things added HP "and" fuel economy.

My comments above is how HP was returned to more than previous levels and pleasing the EPA.

[Leon]

I am not trying to argue here, When you mentioned only with skinny tires I was only making a point that the tires were as wide as any other vehicle of that size, Pinto, Toyota, etc.

And Yes I really drove a Vega GT, it was my first car, got in in November 1971 and had to order it from the factory. I was 17,

Yes I could spin the Firestone 70 series tires with the stock engine in second gear.

I did replace the original set of RWL tires with BFG Lifesaver Radials.

Now I don't recall if the Lifesavers were A,B, or C but they did have much more traction than the Firestone Wide Ovals and I could break the tires loose then too.

Then engine in that car was crap. I replaced the short block in my parents garage when the vehicle was 3 years old. A piston skirt broke and allowed the piston to turn at an angle in the cylinder that punched a hole in the cylinder.

I traded for a 75 Olds Starfire, new. Virtually the same vehicle as the Vega other than body and engine. I always like the Vega other than the engine. The Olds with the Buick V6 was a giant step forward in durability. The Chev Monza, same car had a V8 with the same rated HP as the V6, IIRC.

[hubops]

My second car - '71 Vega < not a GT> bought in 1975 for $ 550. - would leave a lot of smoke behind when I stomped on it ! :-) It had flow-through ventillation - in through the rust holes in the front fenders ; and out through the rust holes in the doors ! I drove it almost 2 1/2 years before the roadside safety check got me

- I was so afraid they'd pull it off the road and charge me - but they let me go with 30 days to turn in the plates ! No ticket ! John T.

[Leon]

I understand that the Vegas had rust issues but mine never has a speck of rust on it. And I lived 3 miles from the Gulf Coast.

BUT I did wash and wax it almost every weekend and the dealer undercoated it before we took delivery.

Before replacing the short block a trip to the gas station went like this. Fill it with oil and check the gas.

[hubops]

You were revving it up for so long - the oil blowing out of it was coating everything within 50 feet - hence the tire spin ! :-)

The early Vega/Astra HAD no equal - thank goodness !

One of my fav Vega stories - I was stuck in a few inches of snow - a kind neighbour plants his boots and braces one hand against the drivers door handle and the other under the rear fender lip - - he gives a good heave-ho and comes up with a piece of my rear fender in his hand ! looking quite sheepish. I thanked him and said - " You can keep that . " This was a 5 year old car - big rust holes all along the top of both front fenders ; the rest of the car getting very rusty, very quickly. Engine blowing oil from the start. .. not a single good thing to say about a '71 Vega. Whenever I see a brag about Motor Trend Car-Of-The-Year I think of the 1971 Vega ..

John T.