What is it? Set 350

[Rob H.]

A new set has been posted on the web site:

[Alexander Thesoso]

2015 This seems to be an electrolytic device (2 electrical connections, polarized, liquid container, gas connection), so I'll guess it is an electrolytic Hydrogen generator.

[Rob H.]

Correct, it is supposed to be hooked up to a vehicle to increase the gas mileage.

Rob

[Alexander Thesoso]

Gasp!!! We are doomed! We live in a society, with and educational system that produces people who accept that: Start with a rotating shaft. Take mechanical energy out to turn a generator. Perhaps, make a round trip through an electrochemical storage battery. Use the electrical energy to break a chemical bond to produce hydrogen. Burn the hydrogen in a heat engine to produce mechanical energy. Use the mechanical energy to rotate the shaft.

And this is a good idea. And the people who accept this make our social and political decisions!

[John Husvar]

2014 looks more like a Farrier's clinch tool.

[Stormin Mormon]

One mechanic friend of mine was playing with hydrogen generators. Says a lot of videos on

about hydrogen generators. My intuition says that it won't help. Converting energy from one form to another always loses some energy.

Engine to alternator to electricity to electrolysis to hydrogen to carburetor to combustion to mechanical. That's a lot of places to lose energy.

[dpb]

...

As long as your intuition is consonant w/ 2nd Law it will come up w/ the right answer on this one irregardless of what the perpetual motion people claim.

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[J. Clarke]

Mine agrees with you, however I do wonder if there has ever been any proper research done into the effects of adding small amounts of gaseous hydrogen to the intake stream of an internal combustion engine. Combustion is a strange thing, and while I don't expect it to happen it would not _surprise_ me to find that a little bit of hydrogen has a disproportionate effect on the percentage of the gasoline in the chamber that gets burned and turned into useful energy instead of going out the exhaust and heating the catalytic converter. On the other hand, adjusting the engine to run a little leaner could have the same effect--remember that modern engines run a little rich to feed the kitty. But then the question comes what happens to the emissions if the cat isn't getting enough gas to stay at operating temperature.

[Steve W.]

Actually there has been a lot of testing done. While hydrogen does help the fuel burn cleaner there is a BIG problem with the energy used to convert the water in the first place.

If you do the math and then actually test it there is a net energy loss. Take a look at how much power it takes to crack the water using 12 volts to generate a usable amount of hydrogen. Then how many HP the engine takes to generate that power level constantly and the fuel used by the engine to do that.

As for most vehicles running rich, pretty much anything built since about 1997 actually run on the lean side. That is why the converter is there to break down the nasty stuff generated by a lean running engine.

[dpb]

There has been much research and there are ways to enhance efficiency, indeed. But, as the other respondent says, none of those include the use of energy from the engine/alternator system to produce the H by electrolysis.

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[J. Clarke]

What keeps the converter hot? The main point of the converter was that it made it possible to do away with the driveability problems resulting from the earlier "lean burn" techniques for passing emission standards.

[J. Clarke]

Where the hydrogen comes from is a separate issue.

[Steve W.]

In a modern three way cat. there are three different processes going on.

1. Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen
2. Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide
3. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (HC) to carbon dioxide and water

Run a rich mix into a cat. and you will see the guts in it melt down. I replace a few like that every year.

The heat in the cat comes from all of the reactions. If you have a vehicle with any blow by or bad valve stem seals it can get interesting.

[Matthew Russotto]

Most modern engines run near stochiometric. The converter is a 3-way (formulas left unbalanced for clarity) NOx -> O2 + N2 (reduction of oxides of nitrogen) CO + O2 -> CO2 (oxygenation of carbon monixide) HC + O2 -> CO2 + H2O (combustion of unburnt hydrocarbon)

Lean-burn and diesel engines use a different converter.