Tools Dictate Dimesnions? was: Furniture Without Measuring Tapes?

[charlieb]

Ed Fisher gave some great examples of using our "Built iIn Dimensioners" (for want of a better term).

I have to agree with the story stick or other "rulerless" methodology > of building things. Some years ago my wife and I were wandering > around a shop up in PA and came accross some end tables we like. > Measurements consisted of so many hand spans plus 3 fingers by up to > the bottom of my pants pocket by wrist to elbow. Top overhangs base > by one palm. Used some scapwood to make up gauges to those > measurements then made up a sample from some more scapwood. Turned > out great. Have since made another half dozen using the same gauges. > > I like to follow the idea of not measuring with a numbered device > unless you absolutely have to. When you cut something of a given > length or width cut everything of that given dimension at the same > time. It might be wrong but everything will be wrong by the same > amount and it will all work out in the end. > > Ed

But we've got all these tools that almost dictate some of the dimensions we use - router bit diameters, tapes on miter saws, tapes of table saw rip fences, chisels, with or without drill bit for tenon widths. If your cross cut fence (or sled) has a maximum "blade to stock stop" distance - does that influence the size of parts for your piece - and the dimensions of the piece as a whole?

So -have you built anything sans pocket tape/ruler/yard stick? How'd it work out for you?

Have you made a whole new set of parts because the ones you cut were 1/32 or maybe even 1/2 inch too short, or did you cut down all the other parts that had to be the same length.

charlie b

[Leon]

No.

Yes, It worked fine as it's dimensions were unimportant. I do use a tape measure if the tools do not have measurement increments that go far enough to fit the project when building NEW. If I am repairing, I typically use a tape measure to get the piece of wood to the rough length, then set the piece of wood against the location that it will fit into and mark with a knife or sharp pencil. I eye ball the mark for alignment on the saw. Larger pieces typically are measured for final deminsion.

Not that I recall. I seldom make a batch of parts that absolutely have to be a perfect dimension. If they do have to be exact I make a trial cut on a scrap to insure accuracy.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Certainly.

Yes, I've done that a few times. The deciding factor on size was the stock on hand. In my case, these were simple projects like a box, or stool, or birdhouse, where dimentions are not critical in that the item has to fit a specific place. I don't see why it could not be done with something more complex though.

Make a cut too short? No one is that careless are they?

[Lee Michaels]

In the midst of a brain fog moment, I have even managed to cut a board too short TWICE!!

Apparently, in some alternative reality, cutting the board twice restores the missing length.

[charlieb]

SNIP

Ah! Leon has introduced yet another measuring unit that doesn't involve a tape with gradations - hand tools. I believe it's called "tool slaving" - measurements based on bench chisels and hand plane lengths & widths. "Make the part - as wide as a #7 hand plane (the sides are parallel right?) - one chisel width thick (again, the sides are parallel right?) - four #7 planes long (a hand plane's length doesn't change much over the time it takes to make a piece right?) - the tenon starts one chisel width from the top edge - the tenon stops one chisel width from the bottom edge - the tenon length is two chisel widths"

The specific widths and lengths aren't important so long as all the parts that are supposed to be the same length and width are - in fact - the same length and widths. But - when you want to make a set of plans . . .

So that's why Maloof has all those "patterns" and "story sticks" and Michael Fortune has boxes and boxes of jigs.

Scaled drawings only become important if you want to have someone else make your piece/idea. Hmmmmm. "If I made a set of plans . . . I could sell them - on eBay! PART "A" +--------------------------------------------+ +--+ +--+ +--+ +--+ +--------------------------------------------+

|| |< 1 wide chisel +-------------------------------------------+ -------------- +--+ +---+ --- ^ | | v #6 +--+ +---+ --- v +-------------------------------------------+ --------------- one narrow chisel ^ Now if I had a conversion chart for Stanley to Emerich handplane widhts and lengths I could get around this Metric - Emperical conversions problem . . .

charlie b

[Andrew Barss]

: Ah! Leon has introduced yet another measuring unit that doesn't : involve : a tape with gradations - hand tools. I believe it's called "tool : slaving" - : measurements based on bench chisels and hand plane lengths & widths.

Not following you.

: "Make the part : - as wide as a #7 hand plane (the sides are parallel right?)

Can you think of any instance of anything where the width of a plane dictates a dimension in the piece of furniture?

: - one chisel width thick (again, the sides are parallel right?)

Same question. Sure, a one-inch chisel isn't much use in trimming a groove a half inch wide, but that's why they come in different sizes.

-- Andy Barss

[charlieb]

Well, the width of a #7 hand plane may be wide enough for the apron of a table for example, and a block plane might be wide enough for the stretchers. If you decide to do a bead on the inside and outside of the legs, could mark the top of the beads the same #7 width as the apron witdth so the bead would stop at the bottom of the apron. Do the same thing "measuring off the bottom of the leg for the stop line on that end.

And let's say you have two bevel edged chisels, say ABOUT a quarter an inch (ABOUT 6mm) and ABOUT 3/4 inch (ABOUT 19mm). Side by side you can draw a line ABOUT 1" from the edge of a piece of stock, or a distance of ABOUT half an inch if you align two of the edges (ABOUT 3/4- 1/4). On a part that's "the bigger chisel width", plit the width of the "smaller one" to mark the left and right side of a tenon and the mortise on the other piece. (and so on for the top and bottom shoulders of the tenon and the top and bottom of the mortise.)

No tape measuring, no ruler measuring, ...

For handcut dovetails, the socket width is often determined by the chisel width you're going to use - so that dictates much of the tails layout, which determines the pins layout. Again, no tape measure or ruler.

The point is you've got the chisels and you know about how wide each one is. Use THEM instead of a pocket tape.

charlie b