I'm getting more involved with carving and engraving using a powercrafter air rotary tool. I need to do something about the dust. I'm checking out various masks but I also have some questions about portable dust filters and collection. I'm on a fairly limited budget and before anyone suggests building my own, let me say that I'm not very handy-- not very handy at all. I was looking at the Grizzly portable dust filters, either the Grizzly BENCH DUST FILTER-SINGLE FAN:
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the Bench Top Dual Fan Dust Filter:
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opinions or other recommendations?
Also, what would you recommend for dust collection. Right now I'm using the vacuum cleaner. But the shop vac I have is big and awkward and the projects I've done so far have produced rather fine dust. Is the vacuum cleaner a really bad idea? Thanks for your help, Kay
I don't do the kind of power carving you're doing (but that doesn't keep me from offering an opinion :-)
The Grizzly products look OK - two fans will probably be more effective than one; but you'll have to decide whether or not you actually /need/ the two-fan model.
If you look at those products, you'll see that they're nothing more than a box with a fan (or two) to pull air through a filter. You say that you're not very handy; but if you're handy enough to do power carving, then you're handy /enough/ to build a box to hold a filter and a fan (or two).
If the vacuum cleaner does the job, then it's a good tool. If not, then you need a better tool (this isn't not rocket surgery). There are optional fine particle filters available for some vacuums that provide HEPA conformance - this might be something to check out with the manufacturer before you spend for another machine.
I thought about using my ShopVac for dust collection and decided against because of the noise level.
I believe that you can find free plans for shop dust traps on the web.
Skip the box...duct tape! Before I built my air cleaner, I used to duct tape a filter to either side of a normal household box fan. It wasn't the best thing, but it was pretty cheap.
I don't know what you are doing your carving on, but my wife uses a small bench I built for her. In that bench I cut a square hole, a bit smaller then the dimensions of an old push-stick litter bucket. I attached a dust collector adapter to the bottom of the bucket, attached the bucket to the bench and cut a piece of peg board to cover the whole mess. As long as she carves over (or in the vicinity of) the pegboard, the dust collector gets most of the dust. I would assume you could do the same thing with your shopvac, although, like Morris said, it would be a bit noisy.
well, none of us started life out very handy. hell, all I could do was eat and poop when I was born, but look at me now... I can type and everything
point being, you can learn. this may not be the best project to learn on, but it's not too bad. you can get a furnace filter (what the grizzly units use) for 3 or 4 dollars at the hardware store and a small box window fan... experiment, and do it for cheap.
if you can handle the crafts aspects of carving and engraving you can do this. on the other hand, you may value your time and the finished product of a factory made collector. just don't go believing that you
*can't* do it.
here's an example:
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those might work for you. they'll probably work better if you have a small fan at your back.
shop vacs are loud and have limited flow, which isn't ideal for collecting dust that is dispersed into a largish volume of air. they are great for collecting dust that has settled on a surface, or dust collected at the source. if you're making fine dust and collecting it with the shop vac, consider getting a filter bag for it. the really fine dust that gets through the standard filter is the stuff that harms your lungs the most.
in nice weather, work outside with a fan at your back.
I posted about this last weekend, I got the air cleaner at Rockler's, the dual fan that looks just like that Grizz except for the color. Paid $50.00. Was in there yesterday and they still had some for that price. Their advertised price on the website is $139.00. Maybe not all Rockler's have them for the $50, but you might check it out if you have a store near you. I used mine yesterday for some hand sanding on a small box and it seemed to work quite well.
Note the size filtering those units handle? It's 5 microns, and fine sanding/power carving creates much smaller particles. For your health, you need HEPA filtering: 0.3 micron. It's the little stuff that is so harmful. The cilia and our muscous membranes filter out the larger stuff.
If you use the referenced filters, you might also want to duct the output so it passes over a pan of water to trap more of the smaller particles. It's also advantageous to wear a respirator with good sub-micron filtering in addition to those traps.
- The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier. ------------
Hi All, Thanks for your quick responses. I have a couple of more questions. First, I'm concerned about the filtering ability of the dust filters. For those of you who have portable dust filters, is it possible to replace the 5 micron filter with a 3 micron filter? I looked for one to use with the Grizzly but I didn't find it. Or, if you can't replace it with an actual filter, can you attach 3 micron filtering material in some way? Second, if I did rig up my own filter using fans and a 3 micron furnace filters, would I be able to achieve the same kind of drawing power as the Grizzly? Third, I've looked at some masks and a lot of them seem bulky and uncomfortable. But I found one that doesn't look uncomfortable at all-- of course, it may be completely worthless, too. Please, take a look and tell me what you think. Here's the link:
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thanks to your support, I've decided on a new mantra: "I think I can, I think I can..."
there are a dizzying array of filters available, from ones that are basically a single layer of gauze on a frame to ones that have activated charcoal and sub-micron filtration (for lots of money). generic filters are good because they are cheap and come in standard sizes. try the hardware store. get a fan that fits a standard filter...
that's largely a function of motor horsepower. I wouldn/t worry about matching the grizzly- it might not be enough for your needs, hard telling. instead, make one that does what you need.
look, right now you're not filtering at all. money's tight, and spending hundreds of dollars on a fancy factory made furnace filter strapped to a fan will eat into your tool and wood budget. you don't really know how good a system you need, but for sure you can strap a furnace filter to a fan to see if it will work for you, and you can do it for under 20 bucks, I bet. if it doesn't draw enough air, get a stronger fan. if it doesn't filter out all of the dust, get a better filter. filters and fans are very common items and come in a huge variety of sizes, strengths and filtering efficiencies. you may have to shop about a bit, but the parts won't be too hard to find.
for me. they fog up the glasses and the dust gets past through the beard. I concentrate on methods that keep the dust out of the air in the first place.
On 26 Jul 2004 03:04:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (kt) calmly ranted:
You mean "point 3 micron" (0.3u) filter. Standard filters have
30, 5, or 0.3 micron "holes" in them. 0.3 is the equivalent of the HEPA standard.
You could build an adapter to fit the larger bag opening to your smaller outlet if you have the little Griz. Just be sure to make it airtight.
VERY doubtful. Box fans would catch some but not at anything close to the CFM of a larger collector. Collecting the dust at the source is the main reason for dust collectors, and fans just wouldn't have the power in far too many cases.
winner since it wouldn't interfere with a face mask/goggles/muffs. The other one appears to be a Taiwanese/Goldbergian nightmare. Nose-plugs-on-a-stick? Har! When they say "nuisance dust", I'd imagine that they mean 30 micron stuff and I wouldn't trust my lungs to 'em. It's too bad they don't state the actual filtering level or offer several choices. I've spent hours snorkeling and that style mouthpiece is quite comfortable. Say, I have an old snorkel and a respirator filter and some duct tape, maybe... ;) You have to give the guy credit for keeping the production here in the USA (as I do my laptop glare guards.)
Yes you can, KT. To save money, try the little $20 Griz 0.3 bag and build the adapter yourself.
The reason I'm answering these dust questions is that I've been asking all the questions in the past year and have looked into it myself (for myself), so it's all pretty fresh. I won't comment on any possible parallels between Mr. Goldberg's and my styles.
- The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier. ------------
You folks have been a big help. Thanks for all the info. Since I already have some health issues, I've decided to go with a Jet portable dust filter. It's more money than I want to spend but for $70.00 more (which is less than the cost of a prescription) it filters down to 1 micron through an inner filter. Besides, if I don't need a respirator mask with this it all balances out. Here's the link:
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in case the link doesn't make it, it's the Jet AFS-1000B. If this is not as good as I think it is, please, let me know. Thanks again, Kay
My most humble apologies: I have no idea what the protocol is when you forget who you are (blushing profusely). I posted the previous message from my kcvale@yahoo address rather than ktdville as in the origional posts. I may not know my name but I do know that I've appreciated the help. Thanks, Kay
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Just in case the link doesn't make it, it's the Jet AFS-1000B.
On 27 Jul 2004 03:01:37 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (kc) calmly ranted:
You might want to read these in detail, Kay.
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Electrostatic filters won't work well in a shop due to the amount of dust sucked through them. They'd fill up in an hour if they lasted that long. The reason indoor vacuum cleaners now come with HEPA filters is due to the fine dust being the most hazardous.
-snip-
It is NOT for two reasons. First, it's a 5u filter, not 1u. I quote "Filters 98% of all 5-micron particles out of the air" Second, the post-filters like that work on dusty air that you would be breathing while waiting for it to clean the air. It is a -backup- to a good dust collection system, which filters the dust AT CREATION. Portable filters like that are good to get the dust back down after sweeping dusty floors and tables, or blowing off a project.
Especially with pre-existing health problems, you want to have clean air all the time, and that takes a sub-micron filter.
I'd recommend wearing a respirator with HEPA filters the whole time you're in the shop if you go with that Jet portable as a solution. Or tape a 5u furnace filter onto a box fan and use that (the equivalent of the Jet unit) with a respirator instead of the Jet. It's about 4x cheaper. ;)
------------------------------------------------- - Clinton never - * Wondrous Website Design - EXhaled.- *
If you have pulmonary problems already, a HEPA mask my be the worst thing you can do. In healthcare, the HEPA masks are provided only for those with full pulmonary function, others are asked to perform other duties when the case demands a HEPA filter.
Grogs, I just looked at 15+ sites for the actual spec of the AS/NZS 1716 standard and can't find anything other than "conforms to AS/NZS 1716". How big are the holes in those filters? 5-micron? The site doesn't say.
Never mind. I just saw the price ($270) and my crowbar went limp.
------------------------------------------------- - Clinton never - * Wondrous Website Design - EXhaled.- *
1) I can put together my own portable dust filter using a good fan and hepa filters that filter down to the smallest particle possible. And I can do it for a whole lot less than the cost of the Jet and my filters will be more effective against the small stuff. My concern here is finding a fan powerful enough to be effective. But I'll start hunting.
2) I need to collect the dust at the source before it ever gets into the air. For instance, if I can rig up something like what Rob made for his wife (earlier post) or the one that someone here posted a link to.
3) I still need a good mask. I'll need to do some more research on this. The Triton mask looked interesting but $270.00 would make my crowbar limp, too... if'n I had one ;-)
You all are very kind-- and patient. Thanks again, Kay
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