Tongue n Groove bits

Very astute of you to ask that question. The answer, IME, is a resounding YES, it does matter ... following are some excerpts from some of my previous posts on the subject:

~ First a bit of philosophy: The holy grail of cabinet making is "SQUARE".

Making a _perfectly square_ cabinet insures that all doors and drawer fronts will fit and be easy to install, and that the cabinets themselves, even when hung on a wall that is not plumb, will be easier to shim to that wall, and that those doors and drawers will always work because the cabinets will remain square even if the wall moves, which all walls will do.

The easiest way to achieve "square" in your cabinet making is to _batch cut_ all the component parts.

IOW, set the table saw fence ONE TIME ONLY, and cut ALL the component pieces that are going to be 1 1/2" wide at that time BEFORE moving the table saw fence to another setting; Set the table saw fence to 30", and cut ALL the component parts for ALL cabinets that are going to be 30" long, BEFORE you move the table saw fence to another setting.

Repeat as often as necessary to batch cut all your cabinet parts, rails, stiles, end panels, floors (which includes the top in industry parlance since they are the same size), and backs.

The same goes for router setups for dadoes and grooves.

Back in the 60's I got a good start on both appreciating, and learning how, to build cabinets by working with a cabinetmaker in England whose family had been in business just a few hundred years. :)

When it came to building kitchen cabinets with traditional face frame cabinetry I dissected what the cabinet factory industry was doing, figuring that a mix of my two learning experiences would allow me to build a superior cabinet, in an efficient manner, and in a one man shop.

This is the method I have adopted in my business and it works quite well for me. Others may have their own methods, thus the plethora of books.

Indeed, I've read them all, take a little from here and there, and depart from them in various ways. One way is as you have noted, building the face frame first ... this is basically what many cabinet factories do, because, when you analyze the fabrication process, it is both more efficient, less labor intensive than trying fit a face frame to a carcase, and also guarantees a square product.

I'll take two birds for that one shot any day. :)

The idea is to take the time to make the face frames FIRST, with meticulous attention to making the face frames as perfectly square as possible (easily achieved with _batch cut parts_ ), AND then assemble the casework on top of that square face frame, basically insuring a square cabinet.

Route the necessary dadoes into the backside of the face frame to accept the ends of the casework.

Route the necessary dadoes/groove into the _end panels_ of the cabinet case.

Assemble the face frames using pocket hole screw joinery.

Once your face frames are completely assembled, with due attention to them being square:

Lay the face frame, dadoes up, on a flat surface and assemble, and glue and/or nail the previously dadoed case work plywood component ON TOP OF THE ALREADY ASSEMBLED, SQUARE FACE FRAME.

Doing it this way, and only this way, absolutely insures that you have the squarest possible cabinets; cabinets that will not only attach to each other easily for a cabinet "run", but cabinets in which the doors and drawers will always work until the house is torn down ... something that can only be achieved, with any assurance, with properly made, _shop built_ cabinetry!

Let me know if you have any questions.

Reply to
Swingman
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Mine, too! Sometimes I assume some construction "things" are common sense. This whole thread, for me, has detailed info, such that it's like direct hands-on guidance. I don't build too many cabinets, however, the info in t his thread is something I needed, also.

Sonny

Reply to
Sonny

I've saved them in my notes. Invaluable information, all of it. Much of it not spoken of in video's or self help stuff.

Reply to
OFWW

Nice execution! The use of proper hardware and finish really put the final 'zing' into this.

My only 'gripe' is the flats at the ends of your upper door arches make the cabinet look kind of sad and lonely....

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

That is because most video's are done by people that have never done the procedure before, but are self professed experts because they did it while making the video.

Most of the stuff on video's is common sense. What they don't cover is what those of us that do this over and over and over have learned from actual repeated experience.

Reply to
Leon

Like a woman's eyebrow, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Got a photo of one that you made we can compare with to see how it would look happy?

Reply to
Swingman

Swingman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

My (limited) experience with Sommerfeld was not good. I bought a panel raising set from them, and the panel raiser had evidently been dropped before being packed, as one of the wings was bent. Sommerfeld was reluctant to exchange it, which is not the sign of a company that's trying provide a quality product. Worse, while the replacement panel raiser was fine, the cope and stick bits were nowhere close to being sharp.

Granted, that's only a sample size of one, but it was bad enough that I have never been tempted to buy from Sommerfeld again.

John

Reply to
John McCoy

Just reviewed your photo's again and noted this.

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Thanks for the Jig tips, I was wondering.

Reply to
OFWW

I'd have to agree with that, although I have run across a few yokels who make me shudder watching their sloppiness, and poor excuses. It's like they have no real pride in their work and just make stuff to throw quickly into peoples homes.

Or they are on a sales pitch for tools.

I had a lot of unanswered questions more than answered here, and I appreciate them all from everyone.

Reply to
OFWW

Participation waxes and wanes, but still lots of well informed folks here, and to help with those questions is why most of them are here.

Reply to
Swingman

Every project of any worth generally has problems to solve.

An ability to be able to devise jigs and fixtures to do things efficiently, safely and repetitively is a valuable skill to learn.

When I get the time, or if asked a questions, or simply in discussion about doing something with a jig, I'll often take photos and post them here:

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As they say about pictures ... just a peek at one may open up all kind of possibilities in your mind for solving your own unique problems.

Not to mention that, do it long enough and you will eventually run across something you did years ago and wonder "how the hell did I do that??" ;)

Reply to
Swingman

Esthetics aside, there is a practical reason for not extending arcges all theway to the stiles (IME, at least)...it is very easy for those ends to split off resulting in an unplanned flat.

Reply to
dadiOH

Thanks once again, this time as I took a quick look at your link, I picked up a good use for mdf, as a pattern. :)

Reply to
OFWW

Or beerholder....

Nope, they all look kinda sad. It probably comes from much of the A&C's popularity occurring during the Depression Era.

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

True dat.

I've put the flat on many upper arches and doors, just never on two doors side by side where the arch gets interrupted by the door styles. That turns an arch into brows!

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

If you like to see arches or arks there are 26 in this picture, not counting those on the does pulls.

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Reply to
Leon

If I may proffer: Like some moon and Mars photos, and mountian photos, man y folks see images, human faces in/among the natural features. I sense th at has happened with Karl's cabinet.

Personally, I like that look, it's different. I can see your brow image, s ince you point it out, same as with human features in those moon, Mars, etc . images.

I'd like to see a SketchUp image of Karl's cabinet with the bottom's edging , the bottom rail, contoured the same as those upper "eye brows", i.e., mat ching features. I'll bet the overall view would reveal just as nice of es thetics. As is, those two "lines" (the eye brows and bottom rail) don't ma tch, and that kinna stands out oddly, for me. With that....

I've often tried different looks on many of my improvised designs/pieces, t hen stand back and see what alterations (improvements??) I can tweak for th e next similar piece, to make it better (for my eye). *Does that make sen se?

Sonny

Reply to
Sonny

I remember that project. Did you use router templates?

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

many folks see images, human faces in/among the natural features.

I sense that has happened with Karl's cabinet.

I can see your brow image, since you point it out, same as with human features in those moon, Mars, etc. images.

the bottom rail, contoured the same as those upper "eye brows", i.e., matching features.

I'll bet the overall view would reveal just as nice of esthetics. As is,

those two "lines" (the eye brows and bottom rail) don't match, and that kinna stands out oddly, for me.

With that....

then stand back and see what alterations (improvements??) I can tweak for the next similar piece, to make it better (for my eye). *Does that make sense?

Sure does!

An earlier attempt at an A&C end table got me to think it looks kind of angry with the lower arch:

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When moving on past square parts and sections, details like arches and flutes can really set things apart (or just look funky). I'm building some end tables now. I like the A&C styles and lately I've really begun to appreciate the enhancements done by Green & Green. Same basic style but far fewer straight lines. I've made some lamps, the first set follow basic designs with a few minor mods:

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The other set went a lot further on the mods:

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I'm close to what I'd consider 'good', but there are always additional tweeks needed.

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

MDF router templates to fine tune the cut on the lighting arches. I simply used my OS Sander on the small drawers and to fine tune the arks on the doors and center section between the doors.

Reply to
Leon

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