Sticky Combination Squares

[DerbyDad03]

I've been using a combination square from Empire for years. Last month I was working with my daughter's boyfriend at her house and he said that he never used one of them before. (He works for his dad's concrete company. He's really handy, just doesn't do much precision work.)

So I figured I'd get him a combination square for Christmas. Coincidentally, Lee Valley sent me an email for this set, so I bought one for him, and thinking that they might be a step up from my old Empire, I bought a set for myself.

Compared to my Empire, sliding the head(s) on the rule(s) is like trying to slide a rock up hill. There's way too much drag. I tried GlideCoat but it barely helped.

Just to be sure that it wasn't just because my Empire was all broken in, I ordered a $13 Empire from Amazon. It slides as smooth as butter and that's what I'm going to give him instead.

They are probably both made in China, but I would have hoped that Lee Valley's items would be a little better from a usage perspective. Not in this case they aren't.

[Sonny]

If you haven't returned it, inspect it closely to see if there's a burr on the inside guide (notch thingy, is it?)... or maybe a sharp edge on/along the rule's valley.

I have an older square (don't know the brand at the moment), the rule portion seems to rust easily and often. My newer square is ok.... for now.

[hubops]

That was my first thought as well - sharp-edges at the slide points - that perhaps could be smoothed out ? The "special buy limited stock " description means that it's not from their regular product line - but it never hurts to give them a call - they might have a quick-fix from a previous complaint. John T.

[Scott Lurndal]

There may be a spring in there which pulls the pawl that engages the slide against the edge of the guide.

I'm not sure which Lee Valley combo square the OP was referring to, it looks like LV only sells Starret combination squares.

[Sonny]

The boyfriend only gets the cheapy square. When he marries her, then he'll get the mo betta one.

[DerbyDad03]

I supplied the link in my OP.

[DerbyDad03]

There is no burr that I can see or feel. Both the 12" and the 6" square act the same way.

Running my nail along the markings on the new ones vs. the Empires, it's clear that the markings on the new ones feel rougher. I wonder if the stamping caused raised edges.

I'll look a little closer and see what I can tell.

[Leon]

As Scott has mentioned, if the nut, that is loosened to allow the rule to slide,is spring loaded, try loosening the nut and pushing it toward the rule. While the nut is loose, the bolt that grabs the rule may still be under tension from the spring.

FWIW I have a Woodpeckers indexable combination square and I have to push in on the nut, after loosening it, to slide the rule.

[DerbyDad03]

Yes, the nut is spring loaded. Every combination square I've ever had had a spring loaded nut.

I just tested my Empires against the two from Lee Valley. On the Empires, the rules slide easily with the slightest loosening of the nut. On the LV units, there is substantial drag. Pushing up on the nut on all units does make all of them slide easier, but the relative difference between the Empires and the LV's is still present. IOW, on the Empires (both the old and new one) there is no need to push up on the nut to get an easy slide, but a somewhat higher, but not needed, level of ease can be obtained by pushing up on the nut.

In order to get the LV rules to slide even close to as easy as the Empires, I have to loosen the nuts to point where the rule is flopping around in the head

*and* then push up on the nut. That is not something I would want to do as a everyday practice.

Could that be due to the indexing feature? How does the indexing feature work? I assume it somehow locks into the stampings, correct?

Do you have other combo squares that don't require pushing up on the nut?

[Joe Gwinn]

The grove in the ruler needs to be stoned or lapped or ground smooth.

After the fact, make a tool that fits the groove of brass, smear it with some fine (water-based) valve-grinding compound, work the groove over a bit, and wash it out with hot water to remove the grit.

Joe Gwinn

[krw]

I thought this was an interesting take on the combination square. I saw one from someone else but this is all I could find with a quick search.

[DerbyDad03]

...or download an RMA from LV and get a refund.

I have no desire to repair a faulty tool when I can buy one that works right away.

[Joe Gwinn]

Sure. Nor does it hurt to know precisely what they forgot to do.

I buy and fix lots of old stuff, for the saving as well as the history.

Joe Gwinn

[John Grossbohlin]

Then a Starrett should be on your list! ;~)

Alternatively, it could need little more than a deburring. Take the clamp screw out and polish the edges of it and the hole through which it passes. It could very well be a burr that is causing the screw to stick in the hole and keep pressure on the rule. A little lithium grease in the hole could help too. I've encountered this before... but did eventually get a Starrett.

[DerbyDad03]

Why do I need a Starrett if the Empires slide fine? What advantage does a $90+ Starrett have over the $14 Empire?

I don't need metric, I don't need 1/64". The Empire (1/8", 1/16", 1/32") has served me well for I don't know how long (over a decade, at least). AFAIK, I've never been bit by the Empire, so what does the extra cost get me?

I've still got time before Christmas. ;-)

[krw]

I thought the point was that you wanted another decent square to give your future SIL.

Exactly, but not much. There's probably a BORG near. They carry Empire and sell sandpaper and steel wool. Seems you're all set. ;-)

[DerbyDad03]

Don't know if he's a keeper. Not really up to me.

I already had an Empire sent to my daughter. It's wrapped and under her tree.

Yes, I'm all set, but I'm still Your gift is on it's way. It's inside one of those blue things here:

[krw]

Four from the bow, three from the port, four down.

At least the red things Leon was talking about wouldn't be on a container ship anywhere. Though, central Ohio is a long way from anywhere.

[Markem618]

I do not think that quality control should cost $75.

[Bill]

You write that as though they are all the same. %-)

To add value you could "certify/validate" it yourself before you wrap it. I think that would provide a nice personal touch. I would do so anyway before I relied upon it. If you do so, please let us know what you discover (for both of yours). I am pretty sure that they will be more than fine for most applications in woodworking.