Starting a small home shop on the cheap

Geez, if you buy all that hardware new then you're not just satisfying a hobby, you're going into business.

With all due respect, you sound over-eager. Look for used cast iron tooling on eBay or at local garage sales and put the money you'll save into an extra mortgage payment every year so that when you retire (okay, let's indulge that fantasy) you'll retire sooner and have more full days of woodworking ahead of you.

The tools you buy will have a lot to do with the available space in your workshop. You don't say what amount of floor space you are going to be able to devote to this hobby so I am going to use the "husband's half of the two car garage" for a measurement because those Taunton books kind of assume that you've got a 25'x25'x outbuilding to spare for this sort of thing. I shall assume only that you park "your" vehicle in the driveway, not in "your half" of the garage.

In said space you'll be lucky to fit a 10" RAS, 8" table saw, two drill presses, wood lathe, metal lathe, shaper, workbench with built-in router table and side/end vises, scroll saw, 4" benchtop jointer, belt/disc sander, clamp racks, shop vac (don't forget the mess!!), grinder, sharpening station -- and the most space consuming things of all -- scrap bins!! Buckets and buckets of them. Dammit, with global warming it ain't cold enough in winter anymore to consume all the scraps, assuming you can let yourself part with them. Clutter is going to overwhelm you. Oh, and then there's shelving for fasteners, hand tools, jigs, and space for sheet goods, raw lumber, etc. You're going to put everything on wheels, too. And did I mention space for applying dust-free finishes to those lovely heirlooms you'll be creating?

Now, with that stuff in hand, you're going to want to buy decent jack, scrub and jointer planes, and you'll want to make frame/fret/bow saws with interchangeable rip and crosscut blades, because you'll have no room for a big ass bandsaw, and you'll find that you won't need it or the 13" planer or 8" jointer or miter saw or five routers or 10" table saw with four-foot wide wings for the sheet goods you won't be able to maneuver by yourself without introducing errata in your would-be glue line edges -- since you're going to be in possession of these cheaply made "neanderthal" tools that work at least as well and quickly as their modern motor powered descendants -- and which are skill building woodworking projects in their own right. If you feel like splurging, do so on a dedicated mortiser or biscuit joiner.

Don't ask me how I know this but you need to find the right balance for you between electric powered and human powered tooling. It's a personal thing. Everybody will pursue it differently. But I've seen crap emanate from "toolie" shops and beautiful works of art from the humblest and poorest of garages.

If you are contemplating making a run of kitchen cabinets from really nice 3/4 plywood then buy or build a panel saw, and if you can't devote a wall to it then hang the sucker from the shop ceiling (on pulleys of course so that you can lower it when necessary). With this one tool, carefully calibrated, then you can handle sheet goods with aplomb. You won't cut full sheets of plywood accurately any other way unless you have a lot of floor space and a Taunton-style ball bearing sliding table or unless you really enjoy hand cutting oversize parts with a circular saw and finishing them up on a table saw and router (with appropriate jigs and carbide cutters).

J.

John Doe wrote:

Reply to
John
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I will make this short and sweet. The only tool that really matters is your brain. The next best tool is the one that is in your shop, not at the store/warehouse. Put down the books and the excuses and go make some saw dust. The rest you'll figure out as you go along.

-Leuf

Reply to
Leuf

*UP* there?
Reply to
Dave Balderstone

Up is relative. There's always something lower.

Reply to
CW

Is this for real? Not counting hand held tools, you can surely get into hobby woodworking in a "serious" way without buying all that equipment at once. FOr the tables, bookshelves, etc you mention, just get a decent tablesaw and get started. The rest of the stuff you can get as you gain experience enough to decide what you really need and want. Most people, if they waited til they could buy a jointer, planer, bandsaw, etc til they started, would never GET started.

Reply to
lwasserm

Yeah, right. Have you priced shipping cast iron tools? I find the bargains are always 1000 miles away from where I live and the shipping wipes out the bargain price - not to mention lack of warranty, dealer service, etc. I've NEVER seen a garage sale that had good cast iron tools for sale. I think they are right there with all the other urban legends.

People who purchase good deals in used stationary equipment are lucky and do not live where I live.

Bob

Reply to
Bob

I followed this advice to a T 3 years ago. I purchased a nice table saw and made those wonderful precision cuts and thought I was in heaven. You should have seen the look on my face when I tried to assemble my work and discovered that a 6" c clamp won't hold everything! I laugh at the concept that it only takes a few tools to get started doing wood working. Aside from your average birdhouse, doing anything of any size is going to require more bits and pieces than one ever imagined. Layout, clamping, and sharpening things come to mind. Oh yeah, then there is dust collection.

I've collected a list of one-liner sage advice that makes me laugh.

"Your best tool is your brain" "Go with a few quality hand tools" "Pick your project and then buy the tools to do it" "build a workbench first" (count the absolute minimal number of tools required to do this - surprise!)

The fact is that, no matter what path you choose or what advice you follow, you will spend more money on this avocation than you ever conceived. If you choose to spend money to save time, you will sink a fortune into it.

Bob

Reply to
Bob

It's not all that common , and it requires a bit of work. If I get two good used bargains a year, I think I'm doing well.

I have had the most luck from:

Your workplace, if your workmates all know about your WW interest, you might be offered machinery that was bought years ago, and is now sitting unused, or the old lathe that is around at grandpa's place, now that he no longer uses it.

Auctions, but know your price limit and stick to it. And inspect the machinery well.

Wanted adverts in the local trading or community papers.

Barry Lennox

Reply to
Barry Lennox

I agree. Obviously there is good used equipment out there somewhere. I have never been able to locate it either. I have bought used once... I did not know what to look for.... I overpaid for a crapsman monotube lathe. I had never used a lathe before. How could I possibly assess its quality or appropriateness for the task?

It worked, but it was no gloat.

The thing about buying used is that you already have to be experienced to sort out the junk from the good stuff. I suspect luck plays a major role as well.

Buying used is for people who want a project.... phase one... spend the next

18 months shopping and phase 2 is some level of refurb. It's tough enough for a newbie to assemble and tune a table saw out of the box with proper documentation, vendor support and a warrantee.

Suggesting that the used market is appropriate for a newbie is poor advice.

To the OP....

There has been lots of good advise to far. I have a couple comments and some repetition:

Re Cabinet saw: No table saw is really sheet goods capable out of the box. It's just unsafe to run 4x8 sheet of anything through a table saw without plenty of auxillary support. Build an outfeed table *and* precut sheet stock down to a more managable size with a circular saw.

Buy a decent circular saw and a decent jig saw. Expect to pay close to $150 for each. You can expect these to last the beter bart of your lifetime. Not because these are so much indespensable for a woodworking hobby, but if you are a homeowner, you will want to have these over time. I good jigsaw will also do alot (not all) of what a bandsaw will do for you.

Good advise that I think is worthy of repetition:

Buy tools as you need them. Woodworking skills are *evolutionary* .. tool buying should be as well. It takes time to set up and get to know each tool.

Workbench is a necessary tool and an excellent first project. Build one; it won't be you last; don't over-think it... just do it.

Grizzly is not really low end. I think you will find more differences between classes of machines than maufacturers. That is a would *much* rather have a griz cabinet saw than a powermatic contractors saw.

Cheers,

Steve

Reply to
C&S

Can't agree more Bob!

Woodworking is a lot about details and having the tools to produce those details cost a lot. Over the last 10 years I have increase my project complexity as my pool of tools increased.

The funny part is, even though I have almost everything a woodworker can dream of, it doesn't look like I will ever stop buying new tools/accessories. It's more fun when you can afford it though.

The advice of looking for used tools is also not a viable option. Before jumping in woodworking, I've looked at all the classifieds possible and never really turned out anything good. You'll find plenty of crap though. If by any chance, you do find great tools, don't worry, their owners know how much they have paid for them and they won't give them to you. It's not rare to pay up to 80% of the price new when very good tools are concerned. For example, I purchased brand new a General 3HP cabinet saw for 2450$. If I happen to find one used but recent, it will easily sell over 2000$. In that case, it's not worth taking a chance for so little difference.

On the other hand, crap will sell easily at 10%-20% of its original cost but who wants crap for woodworking?

Greg D.

Reply to
Greg D.

My experience has been that you have to work at it, and be very, very patient to get what you want. I've found that there are very few people out there shouting to the heavens for someone to come buy their pristine, and often well loved, tools at filthy cheap prices. Word of mouth is about the only way you find these things, and you have to work to get the word out you are looking. The only piece of hardware I own that I purchased new is my Delta benchtop drill press and a

1980 Penny's TS that was replaced on Sunday. All other major hardware is inherited or purchased used.

Over the last couple of years I have picked up a used Jet 14" BS with mobile base, blades and variable belt speed option. It was, and is, immaculate except for one kinked blade that came with it. I picked up the height extension from someone who never installed his. I also picked up a Jet lathe with mobile base, extra faceplates, Nova chuck, a dozen or so tools and some nice wood for not much more than the BS. This was also in extremely good condition.

This past Sunday afternoon my older son and I unloaded a Jet cabinet saw into the shop. It came with mobile base, router lift, router fence, blades, etc. It is not immaculate. There are three BB-sized dings in the extension table and a couple chips on the laminate edges. I can live with abuse like this. My ability to be patient to find what I wanted was due in a major part to the fact that I am upgrading tools, and not looking for a first tool. I would have paid more, or been satisfied with poorer maintenance if I really needed a TS and did not already own one.

None of these purchases qualify as gloats. The sellers were happy, and so was the buyer. I only dikkered on one of the deals, the others I paid the asking price. I ended up paying about half retail, which I think is reasonable for good equipment in good condition. The extras that came with each purchase were the cream on top.

I spent a lot of time looking for these tools. I posted some "Wanted to Buy" notices at the local WW club meetings, I checked second hand and used tool/equipment/junk shops. I talked to people in the local woodworking and hardware stores. I made sure many of my friends, acquaintances and co-workers knew I was looking to upgrade my equipment. I followed up on posts here on the Wreck, on some of the *.forsale newsgroups on Usenet, craigslist, the weekly local "for sale" advertizement publications, newspaper ads, etc.

I found plenty of tools for sale, eliminated almost all those that weren't of the caliber I wanted with just a phone call or email for more information, and later passed on one band saw and several table/cabinet saws because of (what I perceived as) neglect or inability to agree on price. But I spent dozens of hours searching for tools in the condition I wanted over the last couple of years. I am surprised that I ended up with so many Jet brand tools though. The BS and lathe are nice pieces of hardware. Haven't fired up the CS yet.

There were some side benefits to all this looking, besides making a few new friends and meeting some colorful characters. I picked up about 30 old wood-bodied planes from one guy who had a TS for sale. Didn't get the TS. I was given a 24" Rockwell jig saw that was going to be scrapped since it hadn't been used in years. It works fine after a thorough cleaning. I now have a pretty good starter collection of Stanley #11's and a few other metal planes I'm still trying to figure out how to use and two separate boxes of pen turning supplies for $15 and $25. SWMBO has started to give me "The Look" (tm) when she sees me pull into the drive with any old beat up looking cardboard box in the truck. As I write this I just realized that I have yet to come across a deal on wood like I read about here on the wreck. Nobody has offered me a single board yet at a bargain price. Gotta work on that.

Well maintained, good quality tools are out there. All it takes is some patience and effort to go find them. If you need it NOW, you're in a world of hurt. Dumb luck is your only hope. If you can wait 6 months or more, there is some awfully good hardware out there at a reasonable price.

My $1/50.

Regards, Roy

Reply to
Roy

For some people it is. Scrounging is a skill in itself, that some people have and most do not. But people with that skill don't ask what tools to get, they've already scrounged everything they think they need.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Bob.. I'll let the others fight the brand wars....

Just wanted to say that I've been playing with woodworking for about 50 years and still want a few things on your list "someday".. lol

Mac

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Reply to
mac davis

You've got that right, Bob. I just add a little at a time, but I must have over $30,000 into my little shop at this point- and it's not even the nicest one in town (though it is getting pretty respectable at this point). That's not to discourage anyone, of course- you hardly notice it when it goes out of your wallet in $80-150 chunks with big purchases spread out a bit.

OTOH, sometimes (though not enough to quit my day job) I make a tidy short-term profit from that shop in the basement. Even though I doubt I'll recoup the entire investment anytime soon, it sure does help out to be able to make an extra couple thousand bucks every now and then- and that's something that wouldn't have been possible if I had spent all that woodworking investment down at the local tavern every Friday.

Everything has an opportunity cost to it- at least with this hobby, you've got a pile of tools and hopefully some nice projects to show for your effort. Most other recreational activities can't make the same claim...

Reply to
Prometheus

One thing you MUST apply to any purchase is a lot of research and thought. If space is at all limited then think about the capabilities of each power tool you buy. Examples: a decent router with table can also double as a joitner thereby removing the need for the dedicated jointer; a drill press will accommodate a full set of drum sanding bits and lessen the need for a drum sander or a belt/disc sander.

Again, one thing I would recommend to any wrecker is some kind of dust extraction system, even if its only a wet/dry vac hooked up to the tool. You will never regret a (relatively) dust-free workspace.

FoggyTown

Reply to
foggytown

I'm probably in a similar situation. I've had some home-reno type tools for a while, and am now finally in a place where I can set up a small shop.

My first suggestion is to start with a specific project, then buy the tools that you need to build that project.

For the first few years I used a circular saw and a straight edge for sheet goods. If you have a very good saw and blade, you might not need the router for final trimming.

I then upgraded to a very old 9" Rockwell contractor's saw, which I used for a couple years. Finally this past year I got a bonus at work and spent it on a General International cabinet saw.

You will want outfeed support. For cutting sheet goods on the table saw (without pre-cutting into manageable chunks with the circular saw) you need side extension and maybe an infeed support as well. This takes a

*lot* of space.

Still don't have one myself. A jigsaw will do some of what a bandsaw can do, but of course can't resaw.

Don't have one yet. A friend has a 6" one.

Same friend as above has a 12" lunchbox planer.

Got a cheap (but decent) one last year when it went on sale. Made do with a hand drill until that point.

I have a single router with two bases, one of which drops into the table. Bought a cheap set of bits at a wood show, and buy good bits as needed.

Have a 10" single bevel non-slider. Works for most stuff I need. Anything bigger goes on the crosscut sled on the table saw. Anything too large for the sled (which has 14" capacity) gets cut with the straightedge and circular saw.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Friesen

You don't have sanders, finishing spay guns, compressor, or any fans, vents, or such on your list. I presume this is just an oversight for posting to this NG.

Just remember one advise from FWW -- "Beginners focus on making wooden things, after a year or so, everyone focuses on making customers." No mater how well built, the finish and how the whole projects looks is what sells.

You will be selling items that cost way more than Wal-Mart. The buyer wants to feel they are getting something for their money, even if it just bragging rights to 'hand-craftsmanship.' The more 'intangibles' you can offer to a customer, the easier the sell.

Phil

Reply to
Phil-in-MI

So, when did he say anything about going into business? The word hobby that he used told me otherwise.

Reply to
CW

Patience makes for good luck. I would not (and do not) pay to ship cast iron from Oklahoma to the East Coast either. And as I have relatives in roughly a 100 mile radius of where I live, I frequently arrange to pick items up and make a family outing of the remainder of the day -- that way the gas money is not fully counted against the purchase price of the tool. Sure, it's an excuse. But it works for me.

J.

Bob wrote:

Reply to
John

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