$30K on tools 'n stuff? That's some "hobby." That's what I attempted to point out to the OP who alleges that he wants to start out "on the cheap" but his punch list of tools 'n stuff reads like a professional cabinet shop's inventory.
Bully for you, though!
J.
Prometheus wrote:
"Lightning" wrote in news:gVhqg.29045$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews3.bellsouth.net:
I belong to the local woodworkers' club, and get emails offering used equipment several times per week. Not everything is 'top-of-the-market', but the pricing is right, usually. Folks are often coming in, going out, changing specialties and upgrading gear.
There are maybe 350 to 400 folks on the email list.
Several of our folks hang out at owwm. I got a nicely rebuilt Delta 8" jointer from the mid-50's at a very reasonable price last year, so he could start on some new projects.
craigslist.org often has stuff, if they are active in your area.
Just don't slide down the fancy old handtool slippery slope...
Patriarch
You are actually right. I have a friend like that. He spends all his weekends hunting all the garage sales of the neighborhood. Over the span of 5 years, he collected all sort of junk paid less than 5$ piece. He filled up his basement until he couldn't even walk downstairs. He had to use his garage door to get in the basement.
Then, getting fed up of all this mess after he realized he would never use all this junk , he finally called a guy recycling junk. The guy left with a 10 wheeler full of junk and gave him 100$.
Moral of the story: he spent hundreds of dollars scattering the neighborhood in search of junk but never paid more than 5$ each. He sold it all back for 100$ to a guy who will send it to a dump yard and get paid for the steel. In the meantime, he had no basement for 5 years.
Wow, this is really smart!
The same people claiming they make huge savings in finding those used tools forget one very important thing. How much have they spent the rest of the year hunting and looking for them?
It's like people claiming they're making money at the Bingo. They forget to mention all the money they spent previously before winning the 500$ jackpot once in a blue moon. When all the figures are known, they're always at loss.
Greg D.
Yeah, but all the fun he had hunting for that stuff was priceless.
And of course, there's the enjoyment aspects of woodworking. I've yet to find a recreational enjoyment that makes me money. Since my woodworking falls into the category of something I enjoy, I don't ever really expect to make money from it, not in the long term anyway. The occasional profit made from small projects only goes to amplify the enjoyment I get from woodworking.
To all,
My thanks for the many and varied advice. To give a little bit more information (and thanks for all who have replied); this is truly going to be in the 'hobby' category. I'm within eight years of retirement and would love to start something I've always wanted to do before I get to that fateful day and walk out of work going "ok, now what am I going to do?".
Part of the reason I've waited this long is work, raising children and making sure that my family never wanted for anything (yeah, I know, there's one cliche for the books). Now, as to why woodworking, I've spent my entire life (up to now), in the electronics/computer/IT field. But there's always been this desire to take a raw piece of wood and make something that's a one of a kind in this world. Anyone (in my opinion) that can look at a *good* piece of furniture and not be amazed at the wood grain, the finish, the play of light on the top, sides and mouldings is lacking something somewhere in their soul (ok, poetic side back in its corner).
Now, as to the questions (asked of me) and the reason for my original post. Yes, it's going to be a half-of-the-two-car-garage workshop. I have two walls in the garage (with cars in) that are 4 feet deep by 25 feet long, plenty of space to store tools against the wall. Add to that a section in the garage of about 20'x12' that stores nothing today. I figure I can store a full table saw (with in and outfeed tables) there easily.
I also have a 7.5' tall 30'x24' crawlspace that shares a wall next to the garage (the town planning board nixed the idea of taking out 1.5' of dirt and pouring a pad in there)that will be perfect to house a compressor and vacuum system to be piped into the shop where needed.
My first project(s) planned are cabinets for the garage, converting a basement into a home theater and probably (with some help from a general contractor) finishing off a 800SF walk up attic to turn it into a library (in following this newsgroup, I'm sure with some experience over time I can make cabinets better and cheaper than at the BORG). With those under my belt, I may even tackle the kitchen and replace the cabinets there.
And finally, in closing, I've been the old classified adds search and most of the used tools I've looked at were either to worn out or to close to new prices for me to bother. I'm not an expert (I freely admit that) and my biggest fear is buying a lemon and not even having a warranty to fall back on. So, for the money I have to spend I can outfit (with a budget in reserve for all the 'other stuff' such as blades, sanders, chisels, router bits, Etc.) a good 'full' shop using Grizzly or almost all of my wish list using one of the more expensive lines (Delta, Powermatic, Etc.).
To all of you that have replied my thanks, you've all given me some great advice (well, I'll skip the one about always having four car payments, but with my last car being 20 years old and two kids that travel 80 miles a day to college, it was necessary) and a lot to think upon before I pull the trigger and decide to jump in with both feet, or ease into the pool.
Bob H
"CW"
Not all car dealers are bad, same is true for lawyers! (My partner is a lawyer and reads this group once and a while!)
Dave
Not all sharks will eat you either but I still won't swim with them.
Well, sort of a hobby. But I'm a carpenter/cabinetmaker by trade, so I try and keep my home shop at or near the tooling level I'm accustomed to at work. Gotta do something with my overtime money, and I'm hoping to stop having a boss to worry about at some point in the not so distant future. But the same logic applies to someone looking to do it as a serious hobby- it's a whole lot more fun if you're not fighting your tools, and if you buy your stuff a little bit at a time it doesn't hurt the wallet too badly. I couldn't imagine trying to get everything at one time- my checkbook would probably have a stroke, and I'd be eating nothing but sawdust for a year or two.
Well, now that you've filled in the story a little- if you've got a little nest egg you can tap, I'd go for the best cabinet saw you can get, a good compound miter saw with a stand, a good router (and make your own table) a drill press, 6-8 bar clamps, a good pile of smaller clamps, and a standard array of carpenter's tools. You will have to buy more stuff than that, but those are the tools that are tough to work around (others may disagree) I like Delta for the stationary tools, myself- but stay away from the "Shopmaster" line, they are garbage. If they say "Industrial", they're pretty nice. Porter-cable makes a nice line of routers, variable speed is good if you want to make raised panel cabinet doors.
Basic rule of thumb is that you tend to do okay if you stick with the brand names. If you start getting the store brand or some knockoff, it's a crapshoot- sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Do you need a compressor? Probably not- but they are nice to have. Might be worth waiting until you get the rest of your toys, though.
Depends on what you're going for- but with all those cabinets to make, it might not be a bad idea to get yourself a pocket hole jig. Come to think of it, the compressor is looking like a better idea here too- a pin nailer and an HVLP gun got a long way towards making your life easier with the projects you've got in mind. If you were just making jewelry boxes or furniture, it's not that important.
Grizzly really isn't a bad line of tools, and you save a lot of $$$. As noted above, I like Delta, but Jet, Powermatic, General, and Yates-American have their fans as well.
Ease in. Put all that money aside, and get the tools one at a time for a little while after you get a saw or two and a drill press. Two good reasons for this you might not have considered- first is that you have to assemble most of your tools. My table saw took 3 hours to put together and adjust, and required a fair amount of heavy lifting. Doing that several times in a row in one sitting seems like a bit much in my book. Second- you need to learn how to use your new tools. Jumping around on 6 or 8 new machines like a kid in a candy store may sound like (and even be) a lot of fun, but it may be more to keep track of than you bargined for, and it's worthwhile to spend some quality time with each new tool as it comes into the shop not just for safety reasons, but also because it gives you a chance to explore all the features and operations you can perform with that tool.
Anyhow- good luck, and enjoy your new hobby.
Prometheus wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Ease in I think it's going to be. After a lot of thought (and 'some' good advice here), I've decided to start small and work my way up. First items are a small pad in the crawlspace and install the dust collection system, table saw and a router or two. That ought to keep me busy for a month or two and get me well on the way to butchering some wood :). If I use those tools as a stepping stone (e.g. building jigs, some cabinets for the garage, Etc.) maybe I'll learn enough in the process to take myself out of the 'seen it a thousand times, but never done it' category.
My thanks for the advice, it is truly appreciated,
Bob H
I've been following that path recently. :)
Let me add to that list of exmaples and follow-up with a couple of tips . . .
Get one of those table saw sanding discs[1][2] and two pieces of adhesive sand paper. I have the one from one Woodcraft. It cost me about $26 total (including the sand paper).
For those of you out there that have these devices and already know this, you're probably going to be thinking to yourselves, "Duh, that's obvious!". But for me, it was one of those eureka moments that only occured to me *after* I got the stuff home and I was getting ready to try it out. :) Here's the tips:
1) You can put the adhesive sand paper on *both* sides of the disc! I put a 60 grit piece on one side and 120 grit on the other. In this way I could rough shape things with the 60G side, and then flip it over and smooth it out. This is why you should get two pieces of adhesive sand paper. :) 2) Given the costs of these discs, if you need additional grit options, just buy another disc and two more pieces of adhesive paper. No need to pull the paper off the disc, just change or flip the disc over. So for about $52 you can have two discs and four different grit options. [1]:HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.