Anyone have any experience using a jointer with a spiral cutterhead? It
looks like they cost about 30-40% more than a knife jointer. Are they worth
the additional expense?
I've been looking at a Grizzly 8" spiral head for the past couple weeks for an
article. It is about $400 higher than the similar model Grizzly. If I were in
the market for a jointer right now, I think this is the one I'd jump on, or the
12" version. Simple reason: adjusting jointer knives is, at best, a PITA. That
single adjustment creates more problems than any other adjustment in the
woodshop, except for the table saw fence. It is GONE with spiral heads. There
are 40 little carbide teeth with 4 edges each. Simply unscrew, lift, rotate,
and screw back in place. You've got 4 edges before you have to buy a new set,
and the edges are all carbide.
Actually, I had best stop thinking about this before I add another tool....
Charlie Self
"It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric
Hoffer
That
There
rotate,
set,
tool....
Eric
Not to have to deal with the jointer knifes anymore is one of the biggest
reasons for considering the spiral cutterhead. This is for a home shop and 4
edges would keep me in fresh cuts for a long time. I was also looking at the
Grizzly jointers. Torn between the 6 inch anniversary model G0526 and the 8
inch G0543. $345 difference. The 12 inch is too big for me in price and
size.
What about the quality of the cut. Are the results better, worse or the same
with a spiral cutter as compared to knives?
Thanks for your input.
Jeremy
I have the G0500 with standard knives. I spent the extra for the 8"
over the 6" but couldn't quit pry the wallet open that extra bit for the
spiral. Having also owned a 6", the first time you face joint that 6
1/2" piece makes it all worth while.
mahalo,
jo4hn
I didn't really test for cut quality, but I'd say about the same, except in
highly figured woods, where the spiral cutterhead wins going away.
Charlie Self
"It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric
Hoffer
There's <no> size jointer too big... :) Cost, maybe...
I'd say you'll more than be glad you bit the bullet and went with an 8"
every time you use it...not only the width but the extra table length is
maybe of even more value and it's there on <every> cut...
Assuming they're equal quality knives and within tolerances, the spiral
cut will be better in figured and curly, difficult woods
particularly...I've not used the multi-tooth, but have used the
skew-mounted solid knives w/ planers -- just like a hand plane, the
slicing action makes a big difference.
Gotta be careful here, cause too much good luck can kill you. I talked to a
youngster who is one of a group of brothers who own a small sawmill: seems they
have some soft maple (I brilliantly forgot to ask how much) that has been kiln
dried and is no longer needed. He says the price will be "good".
I hope to finish checking that out after the holidaze finish kicking every body
in the time card so as to leave some of us a bit of spare---time, not cash.
Charlie Self
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
If you use the Jointer for jointing edges mostly then it's not worth
it.
If you do a lot of break down of rough stock so you're doing face work
all the time it will be better. Especially if you use figured woods. In
the long run, I'd say its worth it just from the maintenance aspect.
Keep in mind however that the segmented spiral heads is somewhat better
than knife blades but not as good as true helical knife. It will not
salve all your chip outs of highly figured wood (dimensional sanding is
a better alternative if you have it as an option for curl, burl, etc).
With segmented spirals, instead of getting the big bang, bang, bang of
a straight knife head you are getting lots of smaller bangs. However
you are not getting a true slicing effect of the helical which is, much
quieter and cleaner.
BW
Only reason I have not jumped on the Griz jointer with spiral head is
that the cutting edges are NOT really producing a spiral/angled
cutting edge, the inserts still have their cutting edge at 90degrees
to the wood feed direction.
Really feel that other than ease of replacing the knives, that the
Grizz is NOT going to cut BETTER than the standard with straight
blades.
It is cheaper to go the route Grizzly has in this situation instead of
producing a TRUE spiral/helical cutting head
I can get a TRUE helical head for a Delta DJ20 for about $400, and
that may be the best solution.
John
wrote:
Look at www.byrdtool.com for true helical cutter heads and pricing
I am pretty sure the head for the DJ20 was around $400 - just checked
and I was wrong, it is $449
John
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:07:25 GMT, "Daddyman"
...
The difference in performance is that the smaller knives are staggered
and so have <partially> the effect of a true helical knife. The result
is, as someone else already posted, in between that of a straight knife
and helical. There is a difference also that there will be a surface
pattern left that shows at least some hint of the separate knives. How
much depends on how reproducible the head mounting and knives are.
One disadvantage I see is that the replacement cost is quite high for a
complete set when it does come eventually. The good thing is that
hopefully the quality of the inserts are such they will last a long
time...
I saw a demo at Atlanta on some highly figured stock...it did seem to
help. I also agree that for most work the slightly lower effort is for
the most part the only real advantage
With the Grizzly, you're looking at $80 for 40 carbide inserts. The same
machine, with its four knife cutterhead, costs about $50, IIRC, to replace the
HSS knives. Hit a nail with that four knife head and you've probably eaten all
four knives. Hit a nail with the spiral head and you will probably eat four or
five or even six or seven inserts. Inserts sell for 20 bucks a ten pack.
I'd guesstimate that the carbide insert sets should last about as long as at
least four HSS knife sets, so the replacement cost actually appears fairly
cheap to me. Depending on carbide quality and luck, the inserts could last ten
times as long, which means you'd almost certainly have to replace, rather than
sharpen, the knives twice over the same period.
Charlie Self
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
That's a heck of an argument for the investment in the spiral head cutter
It also does not take into account the fact the regular wear on knives is
likely to be rather uneven (assuming that you are like me and don't
religiously move the fence postion back and forth.)
-Steve
I've been being jumped on pretty good here for something I <didn't>
say...I didn't say the all had to be replaced at once, I simply
commented that when replacement does eventually happen, the total cost
of a replacement set isn't cheap...
The four-sided design will extend life and the segmented design does
allow for a chipped group to be replaced, but by comparison a solid
carbide knife can be resharpened whereas a given edge on these can't.
One can also hone a carbide knife w/ diamond in between professional
sharpenings and get a nicer edge for that "special" cut which would be a
practical impossibility w/ the inserts.
You'all are misreading/misinterpreting what I've saying here...I don't
have anything particularly against the segmented heads but don't think
the overall cost of knives will be that much less than solid carbide
(except if you do hit stuff with yours fairly often which I'm careful to
not do...if I have old material I use a set of old knives)...
How well these work for the long run will be interesting to see w/
time...
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