So what's the scam here?

[Doug Miller]

Spotted an ad on Craigslist for a power saw that I might be interested in

but ad doesn't give any details. It's clearly a DeWalt sliding compound miter saw, but what size?

So I emailed the seller for more information, and this exchange ensued.

Me: What is the model number on this saw? Also, are you on West 71st or East

71st? Him: West 71st and DW703 it's a double insulated miter saw type 3 5000 rpm [Note: photo is not of a DW703 -- I know. I own a DW703. The saw in the photo is clearly a sliding compound miter saw, but the DW703 is fixed.]

Me: Could I come look at that sometime Wednesday afternoon or evening? Him: Yea Wednesday around 11 I cold [sic] meet you somewhere

[What part of "afternoon or evening" did he find confusing?]

Me: I won't be available until some time in the afternoon, probably after 1pm. Does any time after that work for you? Him: How about around 3? Me: That would be great. Where do I meet you to look at the saw? Him: Where could you? Do you have a phone number I can txt?

[Beginning to smell a rat here. Maybe he won't give his address because he's afraid of being robbed -- but why does he want my phone number?]

Me: Just email, sorry. Pretty much anywhere on the NW side would work for me, I guess. You said you're on West 71st St, right? Anywhere near Georgetown Road? Him: Yea, do you wanna meet me by the Kroger on 71st and Georgetown tomorrow around

2:30-3:00 [Odor of rat is becoming more pronounced]

Me: Well, I think I want to look at it some place where I can plug it in and verify that it works Him: Well I can guarantee it does.

[Rat stench nearly overpowering now]

Me: That's fine -- but I still want to plug it in and see for myself.

[many hours have passed with no response]

So what do you figure is the scam here? Since he proposed meeting in a public place, it's probably not anything so crude as a strong-arm robbery -- but he obviously doesn't want me plugging the saw into an outlet. And why does the model number so obviously not match the photograph? I'm thinking he shows up with a DeWalt box, taped shut, doesn't want me to open it... and when I do, I'll find a couple of cinder blocks.

[Smarty]

Could be stolen, could be defective, could be both.....

Why waste your time with this type of seller?

Move on.....nothing to see here.

[Home Guy]

Ask him to e-mail you another picture of the saw.

Then submit the .jpg picture to any one of a number of on-line websites that will show you the meta-data (if any) contained in the file. Might tell you the coordinates where the picture was taken.

Would at least confirm the type of saw.

He stole the saw from a work site, and he's nervous about unloading it and getting caught.

[Sonny]

It's a hot saw. He stole it and now trying to unload it. If he's a woodworker, going to his house wouldn't be a problem.

No one in their right mind would buy the saw if they can't fully check it out in a reasonable atmosphere. His deflecting your efforts to do anything reasonable about the transaction warrants your ignoring him.

If he calls you back, tell him to come to your house with the saw.

Sonny

[Jason Bourne]

saw, but what

is clearly a

Does any time

verify that it works

place, it's

Most grocery stores have a lobby area in the front where they store/charge the handicap electric go carts. There are usually several heavy duty outlets along the wall there.

I sell stuff at the Kroger near my house all the time and just plug stuff in to them. Sold a circular saw there once-- people really jumped from the noise when the buyer plugged it in and cranked it up!

[trader4]

iter saw, but what

hoto is clearly a

1pm. Does any time

e's afraid of

me, I guess.

and verify that it works

blic place, it's

y doesn't want

d shut, doesn't

I would not completely discount the robbery idea. They might know that one are of the parking lots isn't under camera surveilance. Or they might call you at the last minute and try to change the meeting place...... It's hard to imagine anyone would be dumb enough to buy it with it in a box. I guess that leaves the possibility that it has a bad motor. But as you point out, it's very suspicious that the guy has misidentified the model. If he actually has it, he should know. It's also possible the saw works, but it's hot so he can't invite you over to try it out and doesn't know a place where it can be plugged in. All in all, this stinks and I'd just walk for sure. For example, even if it runs, maybe it craps out after 10 mins......

An interesting question to ask if you have any more contact is if the photo is of the actual saw. A long time ago I saw an ad on Ebay for original alloy wheels for late 70s Mercedes. The guy had a pic of a nice looking wheel and had 4 for sale that he described as in "like new" condition. I asked if they had any dings, curb rash, scrapes, etc. He said no.

After I had bought them, he then said he couldn't send them for a couple weeks because they were on a car. I then got suspicous that the pic was not of one of the wheels. I guess I should have been tipped off by the fact that he only had a pic of one, not 4. So, I start asking him more about the condition and he tells me they are indeed "like new". In his words: "twenty five years old, like new". Some elbow work on your part is all that's needed.

So then I did everything I could to get the imbecile to not ship them. They were covered by Ebay fraud for the purchase price, but not the shipping. And to ship them from CT to NJ wasn't going to be cheap. He refused and quickly resorted to vulgarity. I sent all the emails and my position to Ebay, they got an arbitrator involved. I think he did his best to reason with the guy, but it did no good. It took almost a month, but they finally showed up. They were all in poor condition, full of dings, scrapes, dirty.... They were far worse than the ones I was seeking to replace. None of them was the one in the pic, you could tell for sure because these all had wheel weights on them. And to ship them, he just put two of them to a falling apart cardboard box. Then he threw a couple pages of newspaper in. Not even crumpled paper, just a few sheets on the top. The boxes had holes, were in such bad shape, that I'm amazed that UPS accepted them.

Out of the $180 or so total I paid I wound up getting all but about $30 which was the shipping cost back after I filed an actual fraud complaint with Ebay. It's the only time I was scammed on Ebay and I learned from it.

[Keith Nuttle]

Many image processing programs like the free Irfanview can read the meta data in a JPG. Sounds like using the meta data would be a good idea.

[RonB]

saw, but what

is clearly a

Does any time

verify that it works

place, it's

doesn't want

You have pursued this much more than I would have. There are other saws on the market and this guy isn't acting like a reasonable seller. Might have a blackjack in his back pocket. Or worse.

[John Grossbohlin]

Yup... gotta be careful. It's a good idea to not go alone with relatively large chunks of cash... It would be reasonable to bring other people and/or friends Smith and Wesson.

[Sonny]

rker, going to his house wouldn't be a problem. No one in their right mind would buy the saw if they can't fully check it out in a reasonable atmosphe re. His deflecting your efforts to do anything reasonable about the transac tion warrants your ignoring him. If he calls you back, tell him to come to your house with the saw. Sonny

Also, if he's the original owner, then he should know the details of the sa w.

He likely didn't show a proper picture because the guy he stole it from wou ld likely be scanning Craigslist for his saw.

A stretch: Maybe just out of curiosity, call the police and ask if anyone r eported a similar saw having been stolen.

Sonny

[RonB]

OK - Now ya done it. You reminded me of a story from my ancient past.

Years ago I was a day-engineer and night-student. It was in a period in th e early 70's and there was a fair amount of racial tension that spilled int o the parking lots of Wichita State University.

I worked with a (then) older engineer who was an avid gun enthusiast. He t old us one day the bought a "knuckle buster" for protection while he, too, attending night classes on the campus. The buster was a two-shot derringer chambered for .44 magnum.

A few weeks later he used it. He was walking across the dark parking lot o ne evening and heard a lot of 'commotion' Two guys had a student on the gro und and were kicking the crap out of him. Beau yelled at them and one of t hem turned toward him and said "what the hell are you going to do old man?" He said he reached into his pocket, pulled out the derringer and proceed ed to scare the hell out of everyone. He was prepared for the sound becaus e he had shot it in daylight; but he small gun shot a streak of flame about seven feet into the air with the thunderous .44 BOOM. All he could see we re the white tennis shoes of the assailants going in one direction and the victim going in the other direction. The sound and flame almost scared him enough to "run off myself!" ;0)

[nailshooter41]

On Mar 13, 10:26 am, "John Grossbohlin"

Or even better, in stead of cowboying up, use some common sense and let the whole deal go. For me, I can't understand why someone would want to buy a used saw so badly that they would need to meet a seller prepared to go Dirty Harry on their ass. Don't think hauling a gun into a highly suspicious situation is an answer.

Mmmmm...... maybe some common sense might work. Could be too easy to do that, though....

I can't ever understand why someone gives a situation like this more than two seconds of thought, or worse, why they will try to make it work to their advantage. Guess we can keep an eye on the obits to see how going to an unfamiliar area to meet someone you don't know to buy something you are unsure about and cannot test to see if it operates properly from a highly suspicious seller works out. Don't forget to bring cash!

Robert

[John Grossbohlin]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am familiar with that phenomena... I have a 3" barreled S&W .44 magnum. Years ago, while studying an armed guard training facility as part of a research agenda, I participated as an armed guard trainee. During the night firing session the school trainer asked me to shoot the .44. This so the trainees could see what a revolver looked like in the dark compared to their

9 MM and .40 S&W semi-autos. There was stunned silence... eyes wide open and some mouths hung open. Of course if I'd used the 4" .357 magnum or .38 Special it wouldn't have been so dramatic. ;~)

BTW, some of my other associates, upon seeing the muzzle flash from that gun in daylight, nick named the gun "The Dragon." The name stuck... It's an impractical defensive weapon but it does work well on whitetails.

[Puckdropper]

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:khq1ml$vnc$1 @speranza.aioe.org:

Windows can do it too. Just right click on the file, select "Properties" and look at the Details tab.

Puckdropper

[John Grossbohlin]

On Mar 13, 10:26 am, "John Grossbohlin"

In this case there clearly are red flags that there may be a problem and the situation should be avoided. That isn't always the case... There has always been and will continue to be risk associated with "private transactions." As such, a risk assessment should be a prerequisite to meeting someone to complete any such transaction.

I've had enough suspect responses to CL ads over the years to be wary... I've also had contact with literally hundreds of felons over the years and know that identifying an individual's true intent is not a clear cut endeavor. Having company in the form of other people and/or defensive arms is not an issue of wanting to play cowboy or Dirty Harry... it's an issue of self preservation if things go bad despite your best efforts. Common sense only gets you so far sometimes.

I know people who will not try to defend themselves... one woman whom suffered two forcible rapes accepts the fact that she freezes and a gun would be useless to her. I know other rape victims whom had no means to protect themselves but wish they did at the time--in addition to the rapes they suffered beatings and in one case a beating and pregnancy. I knew people who are now dead as things went bad when they made mistakes or otherwise were not prepared. One was an elementary school teacher neighbor in her own home... she investigated a noise in her attached garage and was shot by an intruder. Another was in the wrong place at the wrong time on the street and became a kidnap/robbery/murder victim... neither stranger murder was ever solved.

How self preservation is undertaken is up to the individual... After having bad experiences some, such as the double rape victim, use the avoidance method and stay home with the doors locked. Others plan for worst case scenarios and pray they never need to defend themselves. Others are relatively oblivious.

In the case of this CL saw ad... I'd pass as it doesn't pass the risk snif test. In other cases flakey people and/or non-experts sell things and they are relatively clueless about what they have (estates and spouses are good for that). Some sellers are equally worried about being robbed and will not meet at their homes. In these kinds of cases seemingly odd behaviors may be harmless but you never really know until the transaction is over... In general you need to make your best judgment, hope for the best, and be prepared if it goes bad.

[basilisk]

Yep, sometimes the best weapon one has is the good sense to avoid a bad situation. Not that I always take my own advise.

In the years that I raised and sold dogs, I was always amazed at the amount of people that would send a check upfront with no real guarantee of anything, other than my word that they would get their puppy. Only once in ten years did anyone ask for a reference.

I never purchased dogs that way, when I needed new blood lines, I would show up in person to see the dog and hand over the cash, sometimes as far away as Indiana.

basilisk

[Swingman]

saw, but what

Please don't start anything while I'm in Indianapolis now ... I'll be there from Friday AM until Sunday AM and don't want to have to duck. ;)

[Keith Nuttle]

We lived north of there, near 86th and Michigan Road. The fact that he wanted to meet in that area would be more than enough to drop that saw. In my opinion that area has been going down hill for some time, and for us is definitely a pass through area where you do not stop.

[Keith Nuttle]

That must be something that was added after Windows XP

[Bill]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the occasion? The "big race" is not untilMay.

Bill