Scary -- craftsman rant

[patrick conroy]

You too thinkin' this is like Nessie? Only seen by "special" folks? ;->

[J T]

Wed, Jul 28, 2004, 6:49pm (EDT+4) [e-mail] (Joe=A0C) says: set the "safety" starting pin in the table

OK, this is the part hat escaping me. In all my reading on router tables, I don't recall "ever" reading any mention of any "safety pin". I think my router table is sn it's 3d reincarnation now, and all I do on it it pattern rout, or whatever you wan to term it. I've been thinking about a "safety pin" since I started checking this thread, and I don't see something sticking up on top of my router table doing anything oher than hindering me. I use a template, or patter, in all this. Some pieces are about a foot wide, up to close to four foot long. Other pieces are considerably smaller. Some oare pretty much flowing lines, others are pretty complex. But, unless the piece is really small, say two inches, by two inches, I don't have problems. The small pieces, you need to be really, really careful, hold them tight, and go really slow, or the can get whipped out of your fingers. Best way is a jig to hold them - time consuming, yes, safe, yes. Even better way is don't make anything that small on the router table - which is the way I decided to go.

But, to get back to the "safety pin". OK, I get it's supposed to do something "safe", but what exactly? As I said, I don't see it doing anything but hindering me on my table, and my projects. To my mind, it'd be much safer to just take it out, and leave it out.

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[Mike Marlow]

But, to get back to the "safety pin". OK, I get it's supposed to do something "safe", but what exactly? As I said, I don't see it doing anything but hindering me on my table, and my projects. To my mind, it'd be much safer to just take it out, and leave it out.

The pin gives you a pivot point to work off of when doing freehand routing. You butt to the pin and enter the wood into the bit by pivoting it thereby eliminating kickback and wild, exciting moments.

[Groggy]

Aye. Methinks the Dwarves in Khazud Dhum mighta had a hand in it too...'Tho I did get a pic via the back chunnel

Greg

[J T]

Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 12:32am (EDT+4) [e-mail] (Mike=A0Marlow) says: The pin gives you a pivot point to work off of when doing freehand routing. You butt to the pin and enter the wood into the bit by pivoting it thereby eliminating kickback and wild, exciting moments.

"Freehand routing"? That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. =

Tthe OP was doing template routing. So, he screwed up, by haveing the pin in, in the first place?

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[patrick conroy]

A'yup. Me too. Zipping it over to a buddy at the FBI lab to see if he can see any Adobe Photoshop magic was applied!

[Mark & Juanita]

No, you use the pin as a starting lever to rest the template and piece against while turning the piece into the bit. The starting pin helps prevent kickback upon initial bit engagement with the wood. Another way to prevent having the pin come loose would be to use a bit of loc-tite to prevent the pin from coming loose.

[J T]

Fri, Jul 30, 2004, 10:00pm (EDT-3) [e-mail] (Mark=A0&=A0Juanita) explains: No, you use the pin as a starting lever to rest the template and piece against while turning the piece into the bit. The starting pin helps prevent kickback upon initial bit engagement with the wood.

Nice theory, I guess. About 99.909% of everything I do on my router table is template routing. I don't have a "safety pin", and have never had any kickback problem. I do usually have my work trmmed to about 1/4" or so from the template, but not always. I do take it easy, until the bit bearing is riding on the template/pattern.

I just cannot see a "safety pin" being a necessary, or even desirable, feature for a router table. Sounds more like a sales gimmick to me.

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[Mike Marlow]

"Freehand routing"? That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Not at all. It's typically done with a bit that has a bearing on it and you're just guiding the stock without the use of a fence or a miter. Not at all dangerous if you follow the rules.

Tthe OP was doing template routing. So, he screwed up, by haveing the pin in, in the first place?

I didn't realize he was doing template routing - my bad. I would not think you'd need a pin for that, but I don't do template routing so what would I know?

[Mike Marlow]

Nice theory, I guess. About 99.909% of everything I do on my router table is template routing. I don't have a "safety pin", and have never had any kickback problem. I do usually have my work trmmed to about 1/4" or so from the template, but not always. I do take it easy, until the bit bearing is riding on the template/pattern.

I just cannot see a "safety pin" being a necessary, or even desirable, feature for a router table. Sounds more like a sales gimmick to me.

I think you're missing the explanation. Go to some of the web sites and take a look at the use of the starting pin. It's no sales gimmick, but if you're only doing template routing then it would not have a purpose for you. Others of us use our routers for different types of routing and it can come in handy. It's not an absolute must, and there are other ways to get the job done quite often, but it's no sales gimmick.

[J T]

Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 8:49am (EDT+4) [e-mail] (Mike=A0Marlow) says: Not at all. It's typically done with a bit that has a bearing on it and you're just guiding the stock without the use of a fence or a miter. Not at all dangerous if you follow the rules.

Now you're starting to confuse me. To me, "freehand routing" would mean, no template, or pattern. So, what use would the bearing be? Or, is your definition of "freehand routing" somethng else?

I didn't realize he was doing template routing - my bad. I would not think you'd need a pin for that, but I don't do template routing so what would I know?

As far as I'm concered, having a pin would be a safety hazard.

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[Charlie Self]

JOAT responds:

I htink it's more encompassing than you express. Freehand routing is done with bearings that have bits, and with bearings without bits, but patterns are almost always used...I'd hate to rout someone a sign and not know what word went where as I went along. Much sign routing is done freehand. You do have to keep a good grip on the router, but unless you've got a real mismatch between bit, router power and operator, it's not bad.

Charlie Self "Did you know that the White House drug test is multiple choice?" Rush Limbaugh

[Unisaw A100]

JT

Actually, the proper name for the pin is a "starter/starting pin". T'was originally used back in the vintage times on vintage machines (shapers) when the vintage machines were run with a free running collar (what we today with a router would call a ball-bearing bit) and no fence.

It (the pin) would allow for one to feed something like a volute into the whirring cutters (3"ish and up in diameter) without the volute coming back and whacking the operator in his nuts (1)

Many operators of the day liked it when they finished out the day without their nuts hurting/aching/not black and blue.

You on the other hand, do with your nuts what you will.

(1) In reality you would have to be quite tall for a volute to make contact with a cutter, swing around and whack you in your nuts. But, truth is stranger than fiction and I did see an old boss of mine (tallish to the point of being down right freaky) do just this. He had to go lay down afterwards.

UA100, owner and user of a starting pin on his An Ultimate Router Table and nice pinkish nuts...

[Glen]

This is more than I really wanted to know.

Glen

[J T]

Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 5:59am (EDT-1) [e-mail] (Unisaw=A0A100) says: Many operators of the day liked it when they finished out the day without their nuts hurting/aching/not black and blue.

I would have thought that all of them that missed out on such an experience would have liked missing out on it. But, on the other hand, it is a strange world.

You on the other hand, do with your nuts what you will.

And, I certainly shall not advise anyone of the proceedings, but I shall endeavor to keep them unchanged in every way.

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[J T]

Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 8:52am (EDT+4) From: [e-mail] (Mike=A0Marlow) says: I think you're missing the explanation.

I already had that part figured out, however it took Charlie, and UA100, posting, to clear it up. Now I have reasonable knowledge about what the pin is, it's purpose, how it's used.

We've been talking about two different things. For one thing, I have been using "template" and "pattern" interchangeably, for what I do. Then "freehand routing" was tossed in a thread about a router table.

OK, my router lives in my router table. I have no problems with kickback. No pin needed.

I don't do any version of "freehand routing". No pin needed.

Now that it is clear, yes, a pin would indeed be a highly desirable safety feature - in certain applications. None of which I do, or even have plans, hopes, desires, of doing, in this, or any future lifetimes, that I am aware of.

If, in the unlikely event that, I develop plans, hopes, desires, of any endeavors where use of a pin would be a happy thing, I will do a short, intense, search on it's use, before initiating any project activity.

JOAT The highway of fear is the road to defeat.

- Bazooka Joe JERUSALEM RIDGE

[Tim Douglass]

And after reading this I think *I'm* going to have to go lay down for a while.

Tim Douglass

[Mike Marlow]

Confusion is a blissful state to live in, isn't it? Anyway - it's common to use a bearing to perform certain edge treatments like rounding over or beveling, champhering, etc. No templates involved, just your router in a table and your wood. Most times the pin comes into play with irregular shaped pieces that you can't simply run along a fence. The bearing provides the tracking along the unrouted (is that a word???) part of the edge, just as you might expect and the pin provides the leverage point against which to pivot the piece into the router bit.

Well, if you're pattern routing, it's fairly likely it wouldn't be a safety hazzard for too long - it would probably succomb to the first pass of the router...

[Mike Marlow]

I may have created confusion by my use of the word "freehand". I was referring to no pattern, since JT was clearing stating that he does all of his routing with patterns. I am not however, referring to routing signs and the like - I'm talking about routing an edge treatment with a router and a router table without the use of the fence. Typically this would be done with irregular shaped items. Think of a kidney shaped hunk of wood that you want to route an edge treatment on. Ideal example of using the pin to pivot the work piece against to gain proper harmony between the spinning bit and the raw wood.

[Dan Cullimore]

snip, snip

snipping

I saw a guy on tv the other day--contortionist, got out of this itty bitty box that two guys carried onto the stage--do things (well, at least got himself into position--he coulda put his head into a very dark place) I thought only my dog could do ...didn't say if he was a woodworker...

And let's not even talk about freehanding things...;)

Dan