Current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is: aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011.
If the date code on the bottle I just bought is what I think it is, the the bottle is no more than 196 days old.
I can't read the month, but the year appears to be 6 and the day 24. If it's this runny after a max shelf time of less than 7 months, they have a real problem with their product.
This link is safe. Copied/pasted. :-)
My experience is TB III is runnier than Elmer's WW glue or TB II. I like it that way, and find it easier to use and spread. I only bought it once, a few years ago, and used it for a couple of years, with no apparent problems. I have also used Elmer's WW glue that was pretty dang old with zero problems, and once, someone gave me a gallon of TB I guess TB 1 and I had it for I bet 20 years. I used it only on scrap stuff, or non important stuff, and it worked fine.
I just bought a container of TB II to replace the TB III I had used up, I did it because Leon said III wasn't as strong, or as good. Now, I wish I had bought the III, first because I like the runniness and the longer work time, and second because it is water resistant. I never really had a problem with regular Elmer's Cabinetmakers glue on outdoor furniture, cutting boards and so on, so the water "proof" qualities I'm not too concerned about. Nothing I've made with TB III shows any signs of failure, but the Elmer's has 40-50 years w/o failure, so it will be a long time after me before I can say the same for TB. I'm rather confident all TB and Elmer's and most all similar glues will work fine, and long past there expiration dates.
If your TBIII was runny, it was old. In factory condition it is thicker. If runny, the open time is reduced.
From what I understand the settled ingredient does not affect the strength of the glue. BUT that settlement is what extends the open time of the glue. If it settles out and it does not get mixed in the glue will have a shorter open time.
And according to Franklyn April 27, 2011 is 3 years past prime condition. IIRC they suggest not using glue 2 years past the date code. and that is unfortunate because it is often hard to find glue in the store that is not already 6~12 months old, essentially cutting the useful period, for the end user, in half.
You should email TiteBond. They usually respond quickly.
I agree, shaking should prevent it from happening but apparently shaking does not work as well as stirring once the ingredient has settled in to a single blob.
My comment to Titebond was that stirring is almost impossible with some bottles.
Although runny may have different meaning to different readers.
Need a viscometer or rheometer to measure it, I guess.
Well, had FSA County Committee this morning so been tied up but just looked at the container again after it sat overnight in inverted position.
It seems to me it's back to essentially its original consistency; the glob in the bottom doesn't seem to be at all congealed as such any longer; if I picked up and starting using it in this condition w/o having seen it yesterday I'd suspect nothing.
The date code is A20917xxxx so it's actually going on four year for this gallon instead of two; as said I routinely any more will have glue of this age or more since do work so sporadically given other obligations.
The FAQ at the TB site on longevity does talk of the 1-2 yrs but goes on to say that if stored in temperate conditions it should be good beyond that; they just don't list any longer essentially to be covered. As noted, I've continued to use various manufactuers' PVA glues far past that age as long as it still acts and looks ok and have seen no indication of them not performing essentially as new so I really only judge by "if it flows, use it". OTOH, if I were building a $20,000 commission for somebody, yes, I'd go buy new product. :)
I responded here to several other postings as well for conciseness but my conclusion is "it's ok" and at least for the 1/4th to 1/3rd of the gallon here of TB III, it seems that simply letting the solids migrate through the thinner portions overnight essentially reconstituted it without actually physically stirring it (imo a _very_ good result as I was just getting ready to actually do some work for which was planning on using it :))
These results may not be universal, granted, just relating what I see and some past experiences fwiw (which may, may not be much... ;) )
Oh...just thought of it -- mayhaps I can find some time this afternoon and just do a test joint and see how it behaves...if so, will report back on result.
Anyway, hth some maybe...
Titebond is still using the same arbitrary date example (April 27, 2011) in their FAQ,
, as you pointed out 3 yrs ago:
There was no question on the separated old container here; the top (very thin layer) was just water essentially and that which ran over the essentially solids in the bottom was warm syrup consistency...
See other response on overall behavior...
Ditto. I've use TB and other glues way, way past the 2 year mark with no ill effects. When someone gave me the Gallon of TB (before the internet existed) I set it aside because I wasn't familiar with it, and used it only on less important stuff. Had that around for probably 20 years and it still seemed to work fine.
I used Elmer's Cabinet Makers glue until rather recently. I still have a small container but I prefer TB III because it spreads easier and being advertised as water proof/resistant doesn't hurt. Also, setting aside the possibility that time flies for the aged, the Elmers open time seems to be a lot shorter than it used to be, and TB III a good bit less.
Another thing, the Elmers, and the TB seemed to get thicker as it aged (a lot of age) the TB III did not seem to get thicker, or thinner, but I'd guess it was under 3 years old when used up. I no longer buy gallons of glue for the same reason I don't buy green bananas:-)
On 08/11/2016 12:49 PM, Jack wrote: ...
As noted, clearly TBIII will tend to settle out by 4 yr, altho it certainly hasn't been unmoved in that whole time so the actual time since it was last used and such wasn't noticed is less than that altho I couldn't say just when...I generally only use it where it has the specific application, using TB II or other yellow glue of various sources routinely.
Certainly the others do thicken; I think in their case they simply very slowly evaporate some water or slowly "dry" in place. As noted, I've thinned these with no seemingly ill effects to achieve roughly new consistency.
I suppose this is as good a place to report as any, I did make a test joint w/ the TBIII after the overnight upside-down reconstitution. It went on and spread basically as I recall normal and as I expected the joint failure was a combination of breaking the wood along the grain with a few areas the joint did fail. This was a sample of 1" soft maple about 12-14" long, so there's no pronounced length grain as in, say, pine. I don't have stress measuring rig but the maple is pretty stout in a 1" thickness so I'd guess the joint strength not far off published spec's...
Good to know. From what I understand past the suggested dates to use, the thin glue on top is not compromised except for the fact that it will have a shortened open time and if not mixed the remainder in the bottom of the bottle will likely be to thick to use and or will have little actual glue left. It is likely that if you are down to and only use the part that has settled in the bottom that it may not be as strong.
On 08/11/2016 4:51 PM, Leon wrote: ...
Well, part of what I discovered and reported earlier was that simply turning it upside down and letting thicker bottom layer glob it's way back to the new bottom essentially reconstituted the whole mess back to basically, afaict, indistinguishable from new product or what one would get by actually stirring.
So, I had no separated layers used; it looks/acts essentially like new product despite the age and the previously having separated...
On 8/11/2016 1:49 PM, Jack wrote: Also, setting
Just noted I mis-stated that. The TB III open time seemed a good bit
**more**, as in longer open time, appreciated by those of us moving slower in the time space continuum.On 08/11/2016 2:01 PM, dpb wrote: ...
(*) The "experimental test setup" was to set the glued up piece on a pair of solid horses and whack it w/ a 10-lb sledge... :)
That's a perfect test, much better than reading about it, even from the manufacturer who often will shorten life expectations for a myriad of reasons.
When I first started my cabinet shop, I was using all sorts of ridiculous fastening techniques when edge gluing boards. Full length splines, T&G, half lapped, even 3 foot all-threads through my butcher block work bench top.
Then I read somewhere (way before the internet existed) that the glue joints were stronger than the wood. I did a similar test as yours, and discovered they were right, and the joints would rip out chunks of wood rather than along a glue line.
From then on I've been happily gluing up wide boards from narrow boards with just a few clamps and glue. Never once had a failure in 40-50 years. I still have the workbench top with the all-threads bolts pretending to hold it together, and I smile every time I look at those bolts and the needless effort that went into putting them in.
The extra open time is the primary reason I'll use TBIII over the others if water resistance is not an issue. The second reason is TBIII is slightly darker when dried, a better match for oak.
-BR
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