putting a header for a window

[pyotr filipivich]

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed. "If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of changes from what I did.) I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide five foot high unit. sort of like this )

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing', specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide ventilation under the bench.) If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.

[Unquestionably Confused]

I don't know that I've ever seen a 4"x8" board, let alone one used as a header. Two 2x8's nailed together should do the trick. I used 2 2x6's as headers in my garage shop without any problem.

I assume that the 8" is called for in the case of your span.

When I built the garage, I used a pair of 2x10's (IIRC) bolted together with a "flitch plate" sandwiched between them. Plate was a 2x10 piece of 3/8" steel. 34+ years later, with midwest snow loads there has been ZERO deflection on that 16' garage door header.

As for the rest of the "problem", I'm not sure I understand what you're asking so I won't volunteer anything other than to suggest what you're already considering: Right sized windows to begin with.

Have you thought of hitting a "Habitat for Humanity" resale shop? Amazing what you can find there.

[DerbyDad03]

Well, actually, the header doesn't necessarily go at the top of the wall. Technically, it goes above the rough opening. Depending on the height of the wall and placement of the rough opening, there may be studs between the header and the top plate of the wall.

See here:

That said, Yes, building your own header is OK and probably the most common method of creating a header. For 2 x 4 walls, you should seriously consider adding a piece of 1/2" ply or OSB between the 2 x X's to build it out to the full width of the 2 x 4 top plate.

However, I'm pretty sure that an 8' rough opening in a single story, load bearing wall requires a minimum of a double 2 x 10, not 2 x 8. It might need to be even bigger depending on the snow load.

(Old rule of thumb was width of opening plus 2)

Should we stop right here and not worry about your other question?

[pyotr filipivich]

Unquestionably Confused on Wed, 1 Jul 2020

23:54:37 -0500 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

I hadn't. But with the shutdown in Washington, I'd forgotten about that.

[hubops]

What size is the opening ? You say that you're using the 2 sliding windows from an 8 foot window unit - and leave us to guess that size - gee thanks. You could leave a doubled stud in-between the 2 windows and have half the span to worry about - ie: no worries. John T.

[Sonny]

+1. Do you understand what Derby is saying, here?

Compare the price of 2X8s and 2X10s.... not really much difference. Use 2X10s, at the least.

Probably doesn't matter how low your window is. Just don't have your sill, if any, poking out to interfere with your bench. No telling, you may move the bench to another location, later.

Sonny

[Clare Snyder]

Also, doing a "sub-standard" job - window too big or whatever, just to use a "free" window generally ends up being "false economy" as you will have to look at the results for YEARS!!!! Let the moths out of the wallet and find a window that more accurately fits your requirements - and mabee build a hothouse for the wife with the existing windows to produce salad fixings theoughout the year - - -

[DerbyDad03]

Not to mention that any plan to put a window directly behind - below the top - of the workbench needs to include protection for the window. I have 2 work surfaces, both of which are up against the drywall. The dings and dents smell very much like a broken window.

Oh, there's a gap between the back of the workbench and the glass? I hope there's a "backsplash" on the workbench. Otherwise, good luck retrieving anything that falls off the back of the workbench.

[pyotr filipivich]

[e-mail] on Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:01:21 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

Sorry, "It was obvious to me." the window parts are 2 feet wide, for a total of less than 4 feet, as they overlap some in order to have one slide open. I'm after ventilation air as much as light. It gets hot in there in the summer.

Ooh, hadn't thought of that. Because this part of the shop has studs on 24" centers, if I can find some "narrow" windows, I could skip the entire "cut the studs" part and just install skinny windows.

[pyotr filipivich]

DerbyDad03 on Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

I should post the pictures of the one window, not by the bench. Where the 4x4 post tipped over and broke the inner pane. "Someday" I will get that fixed.

If there is a big enough gap, it will fall on the floor under the bench. Then all I have to do is move everything "temporarily" stored under the bench ...

The plan is top have some kind of "back splash" / grate / grill to protect the window and to keep things on the bench. That hasn't been a problem so far, because the bench is up against the wall, and there are two tool cabinets and "stuff" on the bench against the wall. On future plans is to build a new tool cabinet thing to hold "everything" so I can find it. Which brings me back to "fitting the windows" because I'm going to loose that wall space behind the bench..

[pyotr filipivich]

DerbyDad03 on Wed, 1 Jul 2020 22:10:57 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

"It does if you're trying to fit a tall window" B-)

As the header on these walls are 2x4, well, it doesn't matter. The Window frame is going to be more than 4 inches 'deep'. My current thinking is to use a 2x6, and remove a "right sized" grove so I can have the two window panels fit ... and I'll get back to you on that when I confirm the dimensions.

I should have been clearer. While the original window was 8' wide, the parts I'm repurposing are 2 feet wide. If I use both of them, I have a 4 foot 2 inch span.

Yeah. Priorities have changed for the next five weeks.

>

[pyotr filipivich]

Sonny on Thu, 2 Jul 2020 05:05:26 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

Yes. Adding a plywood "stiffener". expansion.

I've already moved that bench twice in the last year, one more time is going to be "the last time". It is just a question of "how much?" - two feet to the right, or to the other end of the shed?

[dpb]

On 7/2/2020 12:00 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote: ...

...

Or, since going to be behind the bench which I presume is well over 4' in length, you could leave, say, 6-8" between the two and reduce header height with the intermediary full-support studs between.

If have to bump out for the window depth anyway, frame in 2x6 instead and you've got extra depth to make up for some height in the header as well.

Get by with just a doubled top plate that way...

[Sonny]

Option, with some extra work maybe, if you only gonna use the 2 smaller 2'X5' sashes. Install the sashes sideways, make a double hung unit so that you can open the sashes from either top or bottom. The whole unit would be ~ 5' wide and above the bench.

Sonny

[Sonny]

The 2 sashes wouldn't have to mate against one another, in the middle. Each would have its own separate track along the jams. Possibly easier to repair and/or replace if one sash gets broken.

Sonny

[DerbyDad03]

Just to be clear, "stiffener" has (next to) nothing to do with it.

If your walls are 2x4, they are 3.5 inches "thick". A double 2x(4,6,8) header is only 3". The 1/2 ply/OSB is to make the header as "thick" as the walls so everything is flush when (if) you want to finish the wall, inside or out, as well as fully filling the space for maximum support.

The addition of the 1/2 ply doesn't add much strength when you consider that probably half of the laminations are running the wrong way and not helping at all.

[pyotr filipivich]

Ah, I had not figured that. The block of wood I used the other time "fitted".

thanks

>

[pyotr filipivich]

Sonny on Thu, 2 Jul 2020 12:06:37 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

I've thought about that too. More engineering B-)

[hubops]

2 x 4 24 inch centers supporting a loft & roof ? .... ok if you say so. John T.

[pyotr filipivich]

[e-mail] on Thu, 02 Jul 2020 16:29:10 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

Yep. Made it myself.