Actually, Mark, I think if you read through all the various responses by those defending the Rational/empiricist method their argument (if I understand it) boils down to this:
1) R-E cannot completely answer questions of First Cause, so our answer will always be "I don't know". 2) No other system that might posit a different approach is valid because it does not fit into our R-E method of confirmation. That is, we R-E devotees refuse to even consider another means of acquiring knowledge absent a way to confirm it via our R-E methods ... which would make such a system R-E in any case. 3) Anyone who accepts the possibility of an answer via a system of type 2) above is inherently: "irrational" and an "idiot" (both of those terms were used specifically in this thread along with some other fairly lowbrow invective).This line of thinking is - as you point out - far more religious than its adherents here will admit. But ... the good news is that they are not particularly representatives of all or even most practitioners of the R-E disciplines. There are a goodly number of serious practicing scientists, mathematicians, engineers,et al - people whose very work is grounded in R-E methods of doing things - that happen to also happily be theists or people of faith in some form. I count myself among them and have met a great many more, and read even still more over the years.
Now, majority or minority rule on this matter is irrelevant. Reality is what it is, whatever we may think about it. But I find it telling that this harsh, abrasive stand from the R-E defenders we've witnessed here is a relatively new thing. It has come about (this is an
*opinion*) at the same time as we've seen an ascendancy of very vocal radical atheism poking its head up in the culture at large. Methinks they protest too much ... perhaps they're worried we theists may end up being right at some level, I dunno. What I do know is that secure thinker don't need the level of vitriol displayed here (and other places) of late.Notice that at no point in this thread did I describe my personal belief system in any detail, nor did I try to "convert" people to theism. I merely suggested that the snotty condescension directed at people of faith from literally the first post onward was unwarranted and bad manners and tried to lay examples of how thoughtful people could be led to theistic conclusions. This alone invoked shrieks of "irrational idiot" or words to that effect. Religious indeed ...