Actually an electrical inspection wouldn't show any problem with his arrangement. He plugs the generator into a wall outlet. And unplugs it when it's not needed. Nothing for an inspector to notice.
It really DOESN'T MATTER what your whole point is. Pretty much every single utility in the united states of america wlil require a transfer switch (and an inspection by the utility and potentially the local building inspector) prior to an emergency generator being connected to the grid. You f*ck up, and besides the possibility of killing someone, you'll lose everything you have in court to the victim(s).
And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main breaker.
I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.
scott
"J. Clarke" wrote
Actually an electrical inspection wouldn't show any problem with his arrangement. He plugs the generator into a wall outlet. And unplugs it when it's not needed. Nothing for an inspector to notice.
***************************************Exactly. I use a welder plug, that is directly below the panel, which is within 10 feet of a garage door to run the gen cord outside. Not hard to remember the steps, when it is all right in front of you.
-- Jim in NC
"Scott Lurndal" wrote
And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main breaker.
I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.
****************************************Lord have Mercy on us all.
The mamby-pansies are taking over the world.
-- Jim in NC
Suppose you DID electrocute somebody else. Chances are it's not somone you know.
So the next time you're standing in a line to see a movie, ask yourself "Am I better off now than I was before the storm?"
I'm sorry, but I'm not cool with negligently killing strangers who are trying to help me.
Hey, kill a lineman and it might be a long time before you get to stand in line to see a movie.
I haven't ruled out a transfer switch. However, I was looking for an lower cost, easier solution than installing one. I can wire the built in plug I described myself. I normally don't do panel boxes!!!. The main reason I wanted to use a through-the-wall version was to reduce the extension cord maze when an outage does occur. The way our house is laid out I would have to route cords from the generator, through the garage door, into the house to a staircase, and then nearly the length of the house to the end of the basement where all of the equipment described in my post exists. I do have a close-by basement window but it has a bubble installed over it. I have done the "driving-rain loosening of the bubble and opening the window" trick a couple of times but the solution I came up with gets rid of that. With my plug configuration I could plug a simple octopus gen-cord to the basement outlet and hit all basement items with short cords.
Some of the guys responding here and on a separate forum didn't fully read my OP. Having just bought a generator during the past year doesn't put me in the market for a $4,000 to $12,000 whole-house or automatic start system. I also am not that concerned about property value impact and codes. We just built the retirement home and, bad things notwithstanding, selling the house is our kid's issue. I cannot imagine the wiring I described reducing value anyway. We also live in a very small community with no inspections. We hired an electrician who previously lived in the KC area and does all of his work to KC/Olathe standards which made me comfortable. If I had not been in the "building a house during a housing crisis and watching retirement accounts dwindle mode :^)" I probably would have put the switch in then. But didn't.
I also pretty plainly said I WAS NOT back-feeding so i WOULD NOT electrocute the guy on the pole. Won't do that. I know linemen check during storm repairs, but a cousin nearly got knocked out of a lift- bucket by a guy who started back feeding while he was working on a line. Their tools are insulated when they are dry, not soaked.
Thanks for input. I am going to check with the electrician on cost of a transfer switch installation. That is looking more like the preferred option.
Ron
People that understand line work in English speaking North America understand the definitions.
There is no "I wonder if it is alive?"
There is only two definitions ie."alive" and "dead".
When it is equipotentially grounded and all known feeds are locked out and tagged under a documented safetyl ogging system it is "dead" Any other condition is "alive"
The "fry a lineman" is just BS from those having no knowledge of electrical lines practices.
-----------------------
Until, as the OP noted, he makes a mistake one day and something happens.
Then we see a "Criminal" that violated civil laws and we hate to see an old senior in jail.
The one we really hate is his electrocuted grandchild with the suicide cord plug in her hand.
----------------------------------
The person you are fighting in court may be your son while your granddaughter is dying over the next few months from a charred internal organ.
Do it properly for a few more dollars
---------------------
And in an emergency, it is quite easy to forget to pop the main breaker.
I would highly recommend that "Jim in NC"'s advice here be ignored.
scott
Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the law.
I also pretty plainly said I WAS NOT back-feeding so i WOULD NOT electrocute the guy on the pole. Won't do that. I know linemen check during storm repairs, but a cousin nearly got knocked out of a lift- bucket by a guy who started back feeding while he was working on a line. Their tools are insulated when they are dry, not soaked.
Thanks for input. I am going to check with the electrician on cost of a transfer switch installation. That is looking more like the preferred option.
Ron
This happened 20-30 years ago and its a moot point now. The cousin died of cancer about a year ago. He ended up his career as the head honcho over a lot of our state's electrical utility crews; and always carried a hard-spot in his heart regarding back-feeding. "%$#^%% Bastards."
Thus my position on not backfeeding.
RonB
Definitely not a good thing to do (backfeed) but the lineman should have been fired 20 years ago according to our legal system in effect.
Some manager would spend time in jail for that possibly. They don't take no BS anymore. Our public is tired of paying for public health care for people that don't follow rules. They find other fields like plumbing or ditch digging.
This is not the excuse not to have a throw over switch. I take it you will remove your system before you die or become senile or sell your house or... or.....
Like I barked before...who cares about your life? (except for the bills we have to pay to repair your burned arm or support you in a coma for the next
10 years or your wife's medication from the nervous breakdown) but you may care about your great granddaughter's burnt arm or the mental retardation from the brain damage your kids watch and will live with for so many years.Stop being so cheap and inconsiderate.
-----------------
Thus my position on not backfeeding.
RonB
Well...............
I guess I don't understand a bit if this. A lineman gets fired for getting zapped on an illegally back fed circuit. And his boss goes to jail?
.. take the hook out of your naive gob.
Same goes for ALL of you... george
Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the law.
Correct me if I am wrong here but should not the lineman ALWAYS assume the line is energized since electricity does not come from a single source?
Unless the line is equipotential grounded it is considered live.
The "National Healthcare System" cannot afford the costs anymore. The US will get there too.
------------------------------
Who was the lineman? We could get him fired for stupidity or breaking the law.
connect a cord, turn off the main breaker, and start a generator, reliabl= y?
My test would be the "I'm out of town and have to tell the wife or daughter how to switch the system over test."
From my experience with our home network, printer and modem issues, it's always easier if I follow the manual when I set things up so she can have that reference and I'm not face with trying to recall the neat jury-rig I came up with a couple years ago after reading a suggestion on a blog (where I lurk ;)
Over my lifetime I've often heard and tried always to follow the sage advice, "do it the right way the first time" and found it has served me well while my "shortcuts" have a high correlation with my "accidents" and "re-dos."
"Hoosierpoopie" is an interesting play. But Hoosierpopi was derived from "Who is your Popi," a question often posed to my grandchildren when I fix something for them that they really like. No need to resort to ad hominid attacks. You either agree with the advice or not. And to your point, of course I can perform the steps outlined reliably. I simply choose to flip the appropriate switch and start the generator without leaving the house.
I have a 5500 watt generator sitting covered outside my pool house near a subpanel that is on the outside of the pool house.I have a inlet for the generator mounted on the outside of the subpanel. The generator is not connected to the subpanel until needed. I have written instructions on the generator and on the main breaker box for the procedure to use the generator in case of power failure.
If, during the time the generator is running, you want to check to see if the power is back on (this is a rural area and everyone around has a generator running). At the main breaker box, shut the poolhouse subpanel breaker off. This isolates the poolhouse subpanel and running generator from the main box. The house will go dark. Turn the main breaker on. If the house does not light up, turn the main breaker back off and turn the pool subpanel back on, relighting the house from the running generator. If the house lights up, leave the main breaker on and leave the subpanel off. Go out and turn the generator off and unplug it from the pool subpanel. If you will be using the poolhouse, return to the main breaker box and turn the pool subpanel breaker back on, . In the winter, the pool subpanel is generally turned off since the poolhouse is not being used.
The above instructions take more time to read than the actual procedure.
Yes, it's probably not to code, but without a battery starter, it can't use a transfer switch. So, instead of using one switch on the breaker box to transfer power, I have to use two.
Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.