OT:?Electrical

[MA Lee]

OK purely academic question and hopfully not dumb . When I was researching the archives for shop wiring experiences, I would come across numerous responses to the effect that the "insurance companies would not be happy when they found out your house burns down due to improper wiring in the shop" to paraphrase many responses. My question is how would the insurance company assuming the shop wiring was the cause know if wiring was there prior to when the house was bought or added improperly by the home owner Background: I'm setting up a new garage shop, I had an electrician install the subpanel, consulted with local inspectors about my plan for wiring the garage, pulled home owner permit and will have it all inspected. So I'm not taking short cuts other than to the outlet wiring myself which I actually get satisfaction DIMS

[Dave Balderstone]

And you're planning on the insurance adjuster not being able to find out what, exactly?

djb

[Greg]

If your job is permitted and inspected I can't imagine how they could refuse your claim. This urban legend comes up from time to time but it always seems to be "a friend of a guy my buddy knows" who got a claim rejected because of faulty wiring. Since most electrical fires are caused by stupid things people do on the user side of the electrical outlet and they get paid, I seriously doubt most of these stories.

[Toller]

I am not lawyer or an insurance whatever, but my understanding is that if it passes inspection the insurance company has no basis for denying a claim, even if it is defective. Maybe they would have a beef with the inspector, but not you or the electrician.

[Mark & Juanita]

I'm not sure how they would know the homeowner vs. the electrical contractor screwed up. Several weeks ago, watching HGTV's house inspector series with my wife, they showed an example of a house having problems and wanting the whole house inspected to find any other hidden problems. The inspector found a couple of circuits in the box with 14 gauge wire attached to 20 amp breakers (max allowable for 14 ga is 15 amp) Homeowner indicated that she had a licensed electrical contractor add the circuits because she "wanted the job done right"

[Greg G.]

Generally, inspection by the AHJ will alleviate such concerns. When you have completed the job, including ALL outlets, just have it inspected. Their sign-off that the work was done properly and to code gives you leverage against the insurance company trying to renege on their obligation - should something terrible happen and you shop burns down - which is unlikely if all meets code.

FWIW,

Greg G.

[Tbone]

Most townships have the plans and inspection information for your house and will also have any building permits and inspections for changes that were made legally. If you have a fire and it is determined that it was caused by an electrical problem, they will compare the point of origination of the fire to the townships paperwork. If the township doesn't show anything being there then you could be in trouble.

If you get the permits and pass the required inspections then you should be fine. The worst that they could do is not cover the changes made to the garage to turn it into a shop because they were not notified of the changes and your rates were not taking them into account.

[George E. Cawthon]

Read your homeowners insurance. Here, unless it is a case of arson by the owner, they will pay.

[Charlie Self]

Or the previous owner could. On a "used" house, there's just about no way to trace who didn't pull the permit that was supposed to be pulled, so insurance companies don't often get to use that one, I'd think. When we had our fire the end of June, it was electrical in origin, but the adjuster never questioned the wiring. Hell, it was actually a sump pump motor that started it, according to the fire department, but it might also have been the extension used from the wall socket. The new sump pump has its own outlet.

Charlie Self If God had wanted me to touch my toes he would have put them higher on my body.

[Lawrence Wasserman]

I've seen the same statements made many times also. There are lots of different insurance companies writing lots of different policies with lots of different provisions. I really don't know what would be covered. However, many many residential fires are determined to be caused by faulty or overloaded wiring and I have never heard of an insurance company refusing to pay simply because there was a wiring error or code violation in a house. Maybe there is an insurance company employee or regulator reading this group who knows the facts?

[Swingman]

I am thinking the point, particularly in this day and age, is why give them the rope to hang you?

[Mark]

While doing a little wire work in the attic I found a kitchen circuits romex pulled twang tight at an angle through staples.

I have one circuit running half the living room and kitchen lights. It also use to run the range vent. IIRC this is to code but not a good idea to me.

The back hall lights, bathroom and a bedroom were on a 15 amp circuit. This may have been to code at one time, not now. While eliminating the bathroom I saw the feed line wires were blued.

Have you ever just staired at something letting the implications sink in?

[Greg G.]

When we first moved into our current house, I was shocked to find the previous idiot homeowner had finished the basement and spliced the new

12 gauge wiring into a 14 gauge circuit, and replaced the breaker with a 20 amp. Then, to top it off, he had the hot and neutral reversed on half of the outlets. Doh!

Greg G.

[Mark & Juanita]

In my old house, while installing an overhead storage rack in the garage, drilling a drywall screw into a roof truss, I got a sudden flash and electrical pop. Asking myself, "Self, what the heck was that?" I went up in the attic and discovered that the electricians had run the auxilliary heat strip power line for the heat pump very loose between two trusses; the drywallers had pinched the cable between the drywall and bottom of the truss, just waiting for me to run a screw through it. Fortunately, all I lost was a drywall screw. I couldn't have aimed for that wire if I'd tried.

Guess I'm not following you here. Blued?

[Greg G.]

He probably means overheat damage. When you overheat a conductor, it takes on a greenish, blue color. FWIW,

Greg G.

[Mark & Juanita]

Ah, thanks, that makes his next statement about thinking about implications make sense.

[Mark]

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant.