If they fall into one of the eligibility categories. Just being sick, broke, and uninsured doesn't do it.
Next time you think someone is gouging you on medical costs, ask them what they pay for malpractice insurance. It's not just doctors who have to pay it by the way, nurses and just about anyone else who is likely to touch a patient generally pay it.
As for "kind of follows anyone who declines or can't afford insurance", try "had insurance from employer, got sick, company went under, group policy was cancelled due to nonpayment of premiums by employer, couldn't get coverage for his preexisting condition from another carrier".
Very possible, but I'm willing to wager that the conditions will change in the not too distant future. Despite the cost of medical training that students pay out of their own pockets, a sizable portion of it is subsidized by the government. And then what happens, but many of them head down to the US solely for the profit motive.
I think that tide will be stemmed to a large degree. Taking on Tim's warped view of what consists of theft, it's stealing from our Canadian society to get their training and then going to the US for profit. At the very least, I can envision some type of mandated term of service in Canada before they're eligible to leave.
Again, you've no idea about my personal behaviors in this regard. Theft is theft. I do not like the idea of profiting from the misery of other and have - even recently -refused to do so. But a poor man stealing from a rich man is just as dishonorable as the reverse situation. We are either people of principle or we can abandon all notion of civil behavior.
You are making my point. The students got something they did not earn in the first place, and then "steal" it by applying elsewhere. This is the innate problem with all wealth redistribution schemes.
yes - theft begets theft - one kind of immoral action creates another.
Demonstrating yet another outcome of all socialist schemes - they lead to some form of slavery. Why not just let the students pay their own way and then use the education they paid for as they wish. There is no theft, no slavery, and no mob rule.
I wish, no pray (and I'm not particularly religious), that we forge a system in this country, that, at the very least, let's us at die with dignity and without stripping our families of the fruits of a lifetime of our collective labors.
That said, there has never been a guarantee of that wish in human history ... we are destined to die.
When you pay insurance premiums, you have the 'right' to have whatever fixed if you've paid your premiums (either direct or via direct pay- cheque (tax) withdrawal.
In the automotive version, many people pay to fix my car if my damage exceeds the total premiums I have paid.
I suppose the difference lies in the area of what a doctor is allowed to charge for a certain product...but that is ultimately his/her choice to belong to that system. The autobody guy isn't regulated.
There is another big difference: With socialist healthcare of the sort found in Canada and elsewhere, even if you have *never* paid a premium, you get to make claims against the system. If people choose to band together to spread risk via an insurance mechanism, there is absolutely no problem. When they are *forced* to do so AND forced to pay for people who never contributed a dime, this is known as ... er .... fraud.
I was born in Canada but never lived there full time for any long period. Suppose I moved back and retired there, having never paid a penny of Canadian taxes. Is it morally OK that I should reap the benefits of the healthcare and elder care system in place there? Again, these are the kinds of problems innate to wealth redistribution schemes.
All of whom voluntarily participate in the insurance system. Moreover, there are many insurers competing for your business thereby providing the best possible rates to the lowest risk customers. This eeeeeeevil market behavior helps keep a cap on premiums in a way no government thug ever could.
Sure he/she is. Autobody prices are "regulated" by what the insurance company is willing to pay for a particular bit of work. The distinction here though, is that the entire process is *voluntary*. You don't *have* to pay comprehensive insurance on any car you own outright (though most states here require liability before you can get on the road as a protection for others - even there, though, they do no mandate *who* insures, only that you be insured).
Contrast this with socialist healthcare. There is one provider, and there is no competition for lowest price, best service, or highest quality care. The only "option" is whether you want to be in the medical business or not. Once you decide to do so, you are forced to place this perverse game of stealing from some to give to others. Worse still, since there is always more demand for healthcare than there is supply, the limited supply is forcibly redistributed to the entire population without regard to their personal behaviors or willingness to pay. The result is that most people (everyone except the nominal poor) see a *decrease* in the quality, efficiency, and speed of care.
In short, it's a deal done strictly by government coercion and it's a system that causes most people to be served more poorly than they would otherwise be. In the mean time, the real answer to care for the poor - incenting the rest of us to help them on a voluntary charitable basis - gets tossed in the wastebasket because private charity is something the political critters cannot use to their personal benefit and ambition.
Which they *earned* by working and studying hard, only to discover that the dishonest mob (aka "The Public") have decided that they get to determine just how rewarded the individual should be for all that hard work. It is nothing short of mob rule.
Sure they do. They get to benefit from something they do not have to earn. Their rights become more important than those who are not poor, who *do* have to pay for what they want.
Neither are "given". Both have to be earned by someone. People of your philosophical persuasion love to ignore this little fact. You just want someone other than the person who actually earned it to have use of it. Using your logic, I should pay for a car and you should be able to drive it anytime you like.
There is no difference in principle. Both require human time and effort to create. Both require the application of skill. You want to elevate one over the other for no defensible reason other than you like being in charge and telling everyone else what the owe you.
No, your still name calling - it's the last resort of a completely failed argument.
According to you. However, you are not smart enough to know whether that is *enough*. Enough to cause more people to enter the field? pursue research? make major breakthroughs? You've written the number you've made up on an imaginary blackboard and said, "That is enough." Just who appointed you and your ilk to decide what the "enough" number is? Can I do the same for your profession? Say you're a home builder. Pretty much everyone needs shelter in some form. I say you're not allowed to make more than $5 CN / hour. Is that OK with you? Would it be OK with your if we all voted on it and agreed to that number. After all, shelter is "intrinsically linked to life" as you like to preach.
You do not have a "right" to steal. I do not steal and object to your doing so. That makes me principled.
You are very wrong. I am happy to help those in need. Just not with your gun to my head demanding the power over my wallet because you've anointed yourself as my better and appointed yourself the czar of what's good for everybody.
Sputtering ... another evidence of a failed argument.
I will not discuss my charitable actions because: a) It's none of your business and b) Talking about it takes all the fun out of doing such things anonymously.
May I suggest, "Economics In One Lesson" by Hazlitt, followed by "The Road To Serfdom" by Hayek, followed by "Atlas Shrugged" by Rand. These three giants should be able to purge your mind of such irredeemable silliness.
Known by whom and demonstrated how? (And no, you saying so, doesn't make it true.)
I live like I do today for three reasons:
1) I was granted health and family through no merit of my own. I am grateful to God.
2) I was granted access to a nation that places (or used to anyway) the individual ahead of the group. I am grateful to the USA.
3) I have worked my bottom off to come from poverty to the middle class. I am proud of my family, and happy I had the opportunity, but Sparky, I *earned* every bit of it.
Actually, your beloved collectivism is what leads to dictatorship, not my rational individualism.
All those people get paid and paid well. They enjoy an exalted position in our society both monetarily and socially. They just don't get paid to your greedy standards. The poor trump nothing.
Wrong again. It's impossible to argue the point because you're entirely incapable of the difference between the giving of health care and the giving of a physical object like a car. To you, they're both the same when it comes to value and that's why you're emotionally and logically unequipped to differentiate between the two. That makes you an asshole. I'm not calling you a name, I'm just stating a fact.
Again, it comes down to your logical inadequacies to understand. Health care professionals are paid and paid well, just not to the excessive standards you'd like to see. The problem is that you don't see the right to health and life as being intrinsically linked. You are not a person of principal, you're a person of greed, taking what you can get and screw everyone else. I don't have to know you personally to make that statement, anybody can see just by your words what kind of person you are.
Sure, you might have made the occasional contribution here and there, but you'd only have done it entirely for personal benefit thinking all along that it might get you something more tangible than just a good feeling.
You really aren't too bright are you? If doctors had to pay their entire tuition without society's help (ie. the government), there would be extremely few of them around. Transfer that notion to most every profession and we'd still be living in the dark ages with a few powerful and educated while the rest living short lives in serfdom.
It's long been known that the highest level a society can attain is balanced by that level attained by the least disadvantaged. Whether you like it or not, society and it's values are the reason that you live at the level you do today. You might call much of it socialism, but it's been proven many times the greater number that benefit from those values the longer society will survive. What you advocate ends up in a pure dictatorship where the only value is might makes right.
I already stipulated that my family was part of my success - and that this was gift, not by my merit. This is not collectivism in any form, it is family. It is not built on ripping off my fellow citizens.
I went to private undergrad and grad school without taking a dime of tax money and without debt. How? I worked multiple jobs in college and got excellent grades thereby earning *private* financial aid. In fact, my undergrad program was so enlightened that the entire school *refused* ANY public/tax money into their school. They (properly) saw it as corrupting of education and their ability to teach as they saw fit.
I did, however, miss the following classes in the aforementioned school, "Why Capitalism Sucks 101", "How To Whine For What You Have Not Earned 201", and "Everyone's A Victim 400".
You are silly assuming that everyone is weak and needs to be "helped" by government. Again - not a single dime of tax money passed through my checkbook at any point in my education. That's what happens when you work hard ...
I was in the upper 5% of the SATs, got a full ride *private* scholarship to undergrad, then went to work for a *private* company that paid a portion of my graduate school on the condition that I maintain excellent grades - I got straight As, and ended up teaching in that same school between Masters and Ph.D. work (the latter I did not finish).
Oh, and I grew up very poor in a single parent family and we NEVER took welfare or public aid ... we *worked*. Oh, and English is my second written/read language. Any more stereotypes you'd like me to demolish before you concede that you have no defensible position here?
Government handouts are for the terminally lazy for the most part. There are a few folks for whom this does not apply - and there is more than enough private charity to help those people out.
I think we agree here. But while the greed of doctors varies by individual, the greed of stockholders in drug companies and for-profit hospitals seems to peg the meter every time.
We had two non-profit hospital groups (and four hospitals) here. One of the groups just got bought out by the one of the biggest for-profit hospital chains in the country. They swear, attest, and affirm that neither the costs or the standard of care will be affected by the sale. Wanna' bet? I'll report back in a few years.
Ah, I think I see the difference of opinion here. You think that you get "free" medical care. Somebody, somewhere is paying for that care -- the money has to be coming from someone. That's the problem with socialized systems, eventually people who aren't paying for the benefits start taking more and more advantage of those benefits, forcing those who are paying taxes to provide those benefits to have to pay more. At some point, the people paying more eventually give up and either bail out from the system by emigrating somewhere else or start letting the state take care of them also.
Really? And next you're going to claim that your family didn't help you out at all with your education. They didn't contribute one cent, they didn't give you food and shelter. You left home at the tender age of fifteen and never received any sort of help from them after that.
Then you attended college. You paid ALL the tuition out of your own pocket. You never received any sort of subsidy or student loan while you were in college.
You earned every bit if it? BULLSHIT! YOU WERE SUPPORTED ALL THE WAY BY THAT COLLECTIVIST SYSTEM YOU'RE NOW CRITICISING.
And by the way, exactly what kind of education was it? A number of times you've been unable to differentiate between "your" and "you're). Whatever king of education, apparently you scored in the lower percentile.
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