Low Noise saw (any saw ;)...)

[Dan Major]

"Upscale" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Check out the miter boxes:

(standard) (professional)

BOTH of these should be able to produce square, smooth ends similar to a quality (power) chop saw. They have up to 32 tpi blades available. The work can be clamped on the "bed" of the saw. The saw is "captive" in the guides. Assuming that the saw is accurate and not defective (same assumption for any equipment), there is no reason these would not make quick, quits, accurate cuts. They *are* manual saws, and if you do much cutting, you will get tired and sweaty. You'll make more noise huffing and puffing than the saw will make.

[John Grossbohlin]

Lie-Nielson has a variety of back saws available now and will have panel saws in the not too distant future... I've got a couple L-N back saws (rip and cross-cut) and some Diston and Sandvik panel saws (again rip and various cross-cut). The Diston and Sandvik saws didn't come into their own until they had been sharpened. From the factory they cut OK but not nearly as good as after a professional sharpening.

John

[John Grossbohlin]

I joined this thread late... If the OP marked his cuts fairly deep with a knife and then used a good sharp handsaw I don't see any reason for him to not get acceptable cuts for flooring. He'd probably do better than he would with a mediocre CMS and mediocre blade... If he's doing this at night and noise is a concern it doesn't sound like he's looking for production speed.

John

[Lee Michaels]

Way back when I was in eighth grade shop, we cut everyting on a miter box like the ones shown above. And we did nice precise cuts too. Everything was square. Our shop teacher was very particular about that. If the project wasn't square or had bad joints, out grades would suffer.

As for ripping, we had handsaws for that. We would cut close to a line. thenplane the board to the line. We did pretty good as a group of beginners.

[Prometheus]

Take a look at Lee Valley.

and the Japan Woodworker I hesitate to make a recommendation, as everyone has a slightly different preference, but each of these companies has good solid products that work well. For what you're up to, I'd use something like this Because I like cutting on the pull stroke, and the spine on the back of the saw will keep it ridgid when making straight cuts in a miter box. If you prefer the western-style saws, it's just a matter of finding one that works for you. I favor a gent's saw with a crosscut set over a dovetail saw (for instance) because of the handle style, but as stated above, that's going to depend on you.

A cheap pull saw from a local borg will work as well, but will not last nearly as long, and I've never seen one with a still brace on the back of the blade.

[Prometheus]

Depends on what kind of production you're doing. As stated in my original post in this thread, I've done a whole pile of trim work with a dozuki and a coping saw, and it was all up to snuff. Which is to say, much nicer than 98% of the crap you see around you every day. There really, really is an arguement for hand tools being at least as, if not more, accurate than power tools in the hands of the right person. If you're lopping off crappy laminate to beat the next guy's lowest bid, then it's probably not worthwhile. If you're trying to make/maintain a reputation for quality over speed, then a handsaw will work beautifully. Especially when the job requires a special requirement, like the lowest amount of noise or dust possible, customers will often be willing to pay for real craftsmanship when it is availible. Also, a good dozuki will cut most trim (though I can't claim this for flooring, I imagine it it very similar) in 3-4 strokes- similar in time to lining up the cut on the power miter saw.

Further evidence of the race to the bottom, I guess. Get yourself a nice handsaw, Upscale, and give it a whirl- you may be surprised to find that they actually do work. And, though it may seem unlikely, they're sometimes faster than the power versions, as they don't require special setups or jigs for some cuts.

[CW]

Something that impresses me during this discussion is that everyone is concentrating on hand saws and planes when laminate flooring is to be cut. This stuff kills carbide rapidly, I don't see any carbon steel blade standing up to it for any length of time.

[fredfighter]

Of course we are, OP wanted a quiet saw. There are no quiet power saws.

Honing the plane blade is a fast step.

Resharpening a Western style crosscut backsaw takes about

2-3 minutes, the teeth do not need to be jointed or set each time it is sharpened.

Replacement blades for the less expensive Japanese style saws are around $10, last I looked. A new blade should last for a few nights' work.

[CW]

Sharpening the saw every other cut would be a might bit slow.

[Ron Bean]

I made a "quiet power saw" by cutting 1/2" off the end of a Makita #79 reciprocating saw blade, and mounting it in a Ryobi scroll saw (which has clamp-type blade mounts).

Don't laugh, it works!

The saw itself makes almost no noise at all. The noise comes from vibration of the workpiece (as you might expect with any reciprocating saw).

The scroll saw is designed for freehand cutting, so it doesn't have a slot for a miter gauge. If you could rig up some kind of crosscut sled with a quick-release clamp, it might work for the OP's project. I just cut to a line by eye, which was close enough for what I was doing.

As someone else mentioned earlier, I think bandsaws also qualify as "quiet power saws". But they're heavy and the OP needed something portable (which is why I didn't use a bandsaw for my project).

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Kidding right? You've never cut laminate flooring have you? Using a steel blade, I used two just to do a few stair treads.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Unless it is wide board, then it would be after every cut.

[Morris Dovey]

| So, take that new miter saw with the laser sight. All they need to | do is get rid of the motor and the blade and boost the laser power. | How hard can that be? I just did all the design work right there. | | * Never needs sharpening! | * Totally quiet... no moving parts! | * No sawdust... just a little puff of smoke.

Hmm - more benefits:

• Self cauterizing... losing a limb doesn't mean you'll bleed to death. * Large capacity/range - 3500W model cuts "to infinity and beyond." * Doubles as lawn mower/tree trimmer/pet groomer/grill starter.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[CW]

Ever cut any laminate flooring? The substance used in the topcoat, this is the stuff that gives it its wear resistance, is aluminum oxide. Talk to Norton about aluminum oxide. That's what they use to make oilstones from. I wouldn't touch a piece of laminate flooring with any plane or saw I cared about.

[David]

I'd bet you've never cut laminate flooring! That stuff is so tough it's hard to cut with a brand new carbide tipped saw blade. Your post is merely uninformed conjectures.

Dave

[John Grossbohlin]

If you feel the finish is a concern than marking with the knife and then cutting a V-groove along the line (on the waste side) with the knife would eliminate the finish. The saw will track in the groove if some kind of saw guide is used (e.g., bench hook, 90 degree setting in a miter box, etc)...

John

[fredfighter]

No, I haven't cut laminate flooring.

Sounds like he's SOL as far as finding a quiet saw that'll do the job.

BTW, my oilstones are made from silicon carbide--harder than alundum. I've used both alundum and silicon carbide to grind glass and the silicon carbide in the same grit size is MUCH faster.

Someday I'll try honing on ground glass.

[CW]

Silicon carbide stones do a great job on axes and shovels. Don't really do much woodworking, do you?

[Prometheus]

Well, David, you have to cut it with something. If you can't do it with a power saw because it's too noisy, then you have to do it with a handsaw. Might not be the way you'd like to see it done, and it may not be easy, but a saw is a saw. Sure, it'll wear out the blade, but that's true of the power saw blades as well. Either way, the flooring has to be cut, right? FWIW, I have cut laminate flooring with a dozuki, and continued to use it long after that project, until I cut a nail in half with it by mistake and broke a bunch of teeth. Yes, I did cut the nail in half- it's not hyperbole. Not the suggested use for that tool, but even the cheap ones are tougher than you may think.

[David]

What brand of laminate did you cut? I use Wilson Art flooring which makes me cringe each time I bring the blade down on my carbide blade-equipped CMS. I'm still mulling over my options for cutting the already-installed flooring for some new cabinets. I've got a carbide blade for my 6-1/2" circular saw, but that will only do the long straight runs. I'll need another tool to cut into the corners and up against walls. Any ideas?

Dave

Dave