Just to play devil's advocate.
1) There's a definite, proven psychological benefit to owning a pet. Dogs in
most cases rate at the higher end of the scale here. Result, people feel
better, many probably live longer because of it. In our age of obesity, dogs
are a source of exercise for their owners. Maybe not much in many cases, but
every little bit helps.
2) Dogs have been known to save lives. Getting someone's attention in case
of fire, coming to the rescue of child, waking someone from sleep for
3) Dogs have had a long history of working in emergency services. Smelling
out drugs, smelling out explosives, sacrificing themselves for their
handlers/owners and other things I can't think of right now.
4) Dogs usually protect their environment against thieves, owner's property
or perhaps someone who would harm a family child.
Everything that Hax Planx has said is true and more. I think the biggest
problem though isn't dogs, it's by far the people that own them and don't
control them. Sure, let your dogs piss every five feet wherever they travel,
I enjoy going out in the winter and seeing yellow snow everywhere. Let them
shit on the sidewalk or a neighbours lawn without pooping and scooping. It's
manure right? You're just helping out your neighbour. Let them run wild
getting into garbage cans. Your neighbour must not have packaged his garbage
properly, so that's not the dog's fault, right? Certainly not your fault for
letting the dog run free. And yes, it's alright to abandon your dog when
it's sick or you just don't want it anymore. It's not your fault it got old.
Beat your dogs or just be plain mean to them, turning them into gnashing,
aggressive animals. Anybody like the postman or a girl-guide selling cookies
who comes into your yard should know better, right?
BUT, THERE IS A SOLUTION!!!! Let's get rid of dog owners. Then the dog
problem will go away, right? I mean, what possible good does a dog owner do?
He's a waste of air and a drain on the economy. At the very least, we should
be neutering and spaying dog owners, not their dogs. That would fix the
problem. Don't you think?
I'd like to include the parents of _those kids_ in the new extermination
camps. The taggers and mailbox bashers, motorcycle riders who do donuts on
lawns and public areas.... Why is it kids have such a problem with property
rights? "I didn't know who owned it." Well, you knew it wasn't _you_, why
isn't that enough?
But just think how much psychological benefit there would be to actually
having a human relationship. I know there are people who substitute
dog/cat relationships with human relationships, and that is not a good
Maybe sometimes, but we have things like smoke detectors, motion sensors
and burglar alarms too. Dogs aren't very good in this regard, because
they bark at everything that goes bump in the night and it is a million
to one against it being dangerous. The dog barking just becomes a part
of everyday life that isn't taken seriously.
But those dogs aren't the ones I was talking about. They are sheltered
and maintained by people who are paid to do it.
But that is just sensationalist fantasy. If your home is going to be
robbed, it will be when you are not at home. If you are not at home and
the dog is, the dog can be dealt with by the criminal. I've seen shows
where a burglar goes into a house, pats the dog on the head, and then
goes about his business. Throw some doggie treats in the bathroom and
close the door on the dog when it runs after them and no more doggie.
If a dog is raised to be good with children, it won't be a very good
guard dog. But in fact, dogs are a much greater danger to children than
I know you are just trying to be funny with that last paragraph, but it
is actually a good example of the straw man arguments used when
emotional subjects like this come up. What we really need is a change
of culture and for some people to stand up and say that the Emperor is
ass naked and that there should be a rational component to the decision
of becoming a dog owner. The laws the way they stand are hardly unfair
to dog owners. We can't play loud music anytime we want, but a dog
barking all the time is OK. We aren't allowed to maintain eyesores or
safety and sanitation nuisances, unless they are somehow related to dog
On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:31:39 GMT, the inscrutable Lobby Dosser
Yes, some laws are out there. Being enforced? Bull Fracking SH*T!
About the only time I've heard them being enforced is when it's after
10pm, and then it's only after a dozen calls to the cops who try to
pass it on to the City's Code Enforcement officer. He doesn't even
start work until 9am and is WELL gone before 5:01pm hits. And if you
live in the -county-, good frackin' luck at any time of day.
I've been exposed to this from pet owners in every city I've ever
lived or visited. I'll bet there's not a single person here who
doesn't have a nuisance animal living near them, Lobby. The only
folks who don't think it's a nuisance for a dog to bark 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, are the pet owners themselves. They don't hear
it for some reason. <sigh>
When I'm crowned king, pets and religion will be outlawed as the world
becomes a better place. <bseg>
If you turn the United States on its side,
everything loose will fall to California.
In some areas maybe, but in general I would say that enforcement is very
lax. If it is an extreme case or something bad happens, then some
ordinances might be enforced, but I have seldom seen it here in the rust
belt. Maybe if a person wanted to be the neighbor from hell, they might
get something done about some less extreme but still bothersome cases,
but that's what it would take. I don't want to go to war with my
neighbors, but fewer dogs would be nice, and I know for a fact that many
is the time they don't want to hear the dogs any more than I do. I just
wish people would think more before getting a dog. People see puppies
and can't resist taking one home, but then we all live with the
consequences when it isn't a puppy anymore.
How about talking to the neighbors? If that doesn't work, maybe some
conflict resolution. Where I live - upper left coast - we have a city
sponsored, volunteer conflict resolution team. Haven't had to use it, but
as I understand it they'll resolve the situation peacefully or, if there
is a violation, bring in the hired guns.
I am a dog owner, but cannot abide 24x7 barkers.
I'm not surprised that people in England would want to discourage
obnoxious neighbors with an average of over 800 people per square mile.
If you could give some examples of these proposed laws, I could better
tell you whether I agree with them or not. We have noise laws now,
grass can't be over 12", old cars need current plates, etc. If you ever
lived in a neighborhood where 'do what thou wilt is the whole of the
law', it is easy to understand why they exist, and why some communities
have covenants that go beyond that. I would agree it is ridiculous to
dictate the color of a person's house, but putting the kibosh on
barking, snarling dogs is just common sense.
I can't speak for *most people*, but I love my dogs, and they're an
important part of my family.
It is? What did a cat ever do to you? I'd rather have cats in the
house (and the strays in the neighborhood) than disease-carrying
vermin that try to get in and spoil my food. Of course, that's just
one guy's opinion.
Now these are good reasons to dislike some dogs, and I tend to agree
that there are a lot of problem animals around. However, it's like
anything else- you see and hear the ones that are causing trouble, and
have no reason to notice the majority of them that behave themselves.
While it's not always effective, call your local animal control and
report the irresponsible pet owners- that's not going to make you feel
better if the junkyard dog next door keeps you up all night, but it's
about all you can do.
People do that too. When a dog does it, it's usually the owners'
Why is that surprising? I know you probably will not buy it, but most
dogs aren't any more likely to attack you than your neighbor is. Some
of them look really mean, but then again, so have many of my
neighbors. Dogs are social animals, and they act accordingly.
Here's the thing I wanted to reply to the most- my wife and I decided
not to have any children. I really, really wanted children, but my
side of the family tree is so full of crime, violence, mental illness
and drug abuse that we can't justify creating children that are likely
to be flawed enough to represent a danger to the community just
because we *want* to. We may adopt someday- but the expense and
stress of the process is too much for us right now, so our two dogs
are our surrogate children. They are in fact hunting dogs- they both
go pheasant hunting, and the beagle is a good rabbit dog. Neither of
them are allowed to bark outside of the house unless they are working,
and each of them are tethered when we let them out so they do not
scare people walking past. The point is that there *are* good reasons
to own dogs, and there are responsible owners. There are also jerks-
but they should not be held up as examples of typical pet owners and
used as a justification for shutting out a type of animal that has
evolved alongside humanity for tens of thousands of years as a trusted
companion, guard, and co-worker. We made them what they are today,
and to turn our backs on dogs is to break a very deep commitment to a
species that helped us in many ways to become what we are today.
Useless? Pointless? Hardly...
Well, I won't try to talk you out of your beliefs, because they are
emotional rather than rational.
They've done plenty. They do many of the same things dogs do, just on a
smaller scale and they actually can do a lot of the same damage rodents
do, like making homes for themselves under houses, tearing out
insulation, etc. Ever heard a cat in heat, or a cat fight? It ranks up
there with a dog barking. As for property damage inside a house, cats
are almost up there with dogs scratching furniture and urinating on
everything. Rodents can be controlled with traps and denying them
access to your house. If mice are getting in, then you have a lot of
maintenance to do. Few cats are good mousers, because the cat should be
a little wild and most of all HUNGRY, and most house cats don't qualify.
I have yet to meet the dog that wasn't a problem. All my neighbors'
dogs bark at anything that moves or makes a sound. Nice ones, mean
ones, big ones, small ones, it's all the same racket.
No doubt some people don't have much more sense than animals, but these
kinds of people aren't adopted by well-meaning people and moved into
their homes. For millions of otherwise clean people with well
maintained homes, pets do the overwhelming majority of property damage.
I've never lived with a dog or cat that doesn't have 'accidents', and
once they get started, it only goes downhill from there. They all shed
fur, knock things over, cats scratch, dogs chew and on and on.
You're right, I don't buy it. No human being has ever chased me trying
to, and sometimes succeeding at, biting me. Moreover, that statement
isn't born out by some easily verifiable facts. There about five
million dog bites and 350,000 emergency room visits each year because of
them. 77% of victims are children.
I would strenuously argue that dogs are a poor substitute for a family.
If you are worried about bad blood, then you should really think twice
about adoption. It isn't the stable, well-grounded and intelligent who
give up their children for adoption. Sorry if that ruffles any
feathers, but I'm just trying to say it like it is, however painful that
may be. I'm not trying to end the existence of canis domesticus. I'm
just trying to get people to think of the consequences of dog ownership
in a more rational way. Too much of our culture when it comes to dogs
is based on Walt Disney and other childrens fantasy stories. If all
dogs go to heaven, then hell may have some distinct advantages. If my
neighbors had one dog each, that alone would be a huge improvement.
Even dog advocacy groups tell us there are too many dogs and that dog
owners have to change and spend even more time and money on these
already high maintenance beasts. Unfortunately, people don't easily
change, and there could be another message going out to the public that
is never heard--the alternative of not owning a dog at all. If there
were fewer dogs, more of them might actually get the maintenance they
I couldn't resist adding to this OT rant.
When my wife was 16 or so and still living with her parents they had a
German Shepard dog, one day as her father was pulling into the drive
way a couple guys with guns jumped into his car and drove him around
the block relieving him of all his valuables. When they got back to
the house they were going to go inside but the large barking dog
convinced them otherwise. What do you think the thugs would have done
to my future wife if the dog deterrent weren't there?
We now have a Shepard mix dog, very well trained and doesn't bark
unless necessary. The rat dogs that live next door bark whenever I am
in the backyard, very annoying. The key to well behaved city dogs is
lots of exercise and training. When a poorly trained dog starts
eating the house the owner banishes them to the backyard where the
neighbors suffer. A few minutes of training and a walk a day can do
wonders for a 'problem' dog.
Back on thread, use tile, it's tough and wear resistant especially if
you regularly use that silicone grout sealer stuff like we are all
suppose to. Some selectively placed carpets with padded backers will
help with dropped items and make working in the kitchen a bit more
Nah, for some reason comparing someone to a fascist is bad, doesn't seem
to have the same weight when being compared to a communist.
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
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