I have been debating with my niece regarging fitchen flooring and so far we have determined the following:
Ceramic tile: Too hard. Any glassware that drops to the floor will instantly shatter. Grout sucks up spills like a sponge leading to the dreaded sour milk smell.
One piece linoleum: Generally looks like crap. A real bitch to install.
Peel and stick squares: They move over time and they generally don't last too long. Looks cheap.
Wood Flooring: The right floor lasts but installing over a concrete slab can be a real challenge if one wants to avoid that hollow sound. The finish doesn't wear well with high traffic and the dogs running with their nails is a concern. The added height of the wood floor can be an issue. Then there is the issue of spills.
She mentioned cork flooring. Sounds ok but periodic re-coatings are necessary. Are there any disadvantages to cork flooring that I should know about?
Never had that problem in my last house. Some day I'll have at again in this house. Loved it. Easty to care for, always looked fantastic. We used some Italian quarry tile. As for the glassware, I've never dropped a pice on any floor that did not break. Ceramic is my first choice.
It has improved from what it used to be. I had mine installed by a pro though. Not as easily cleaned as ceramic, it is decent looking and has good utility properties.
Yes, last choice.
Consider engineered wood or laminate. Done right, they are durable and the spil problem is minimal. I have an area with WilsonArt laminate that is in perfect dondition after about 8 years. I have Mannington engineered wood in my family room and hallway and it is still good after two years. Factory finisher are verey durable.
I don't know a lot about it, but it would not be my choice for a kitchen.
not sure I agree with you there. the kitchen i'm redoing has 1 ft.sq vinyl tiles that looked great. They've stood up remarkably well to the abuse of the kitchen demolition and construction. We're going to be putting porcelain tile over them because I like it but I was pretty impressed with how well the vinyl holds up. I suppose riverdancing on it in golf shoes would tear it up pretty well though.
Mine is laid directly over the slab and it doesn't provide much protection against glasses shattering. Some underlayment would have done wonders for it but I suppose that adds it's own problems.
It sounds as if things like dogs and kids and spills are major factors. Sheet vinyl doesn't have seams, at least not many of them, is reasonably easy to install, wears ok, and isn't too hard to replace or even floor over for when those kids are grown (and have stopped spilling things). It's not going to be gorgeous but it sounds as if wear and ease of cleaning are your drivers at present.
I don't know about "re-coatings." I installed a cork laminate (8" x 4' planks) which is prefinished (doesn't that sound oxymorinish?).
What we love about it is the feel, both with and without shoes on. It's not soft. It doesn't exactly feel cushiony. But you know you're on a comfortable surface. It's also a "warm" surface. Not so temperature-wise, but imagine what your bare foot feels like standing on stone or tile. There is absolutely none of that with cork. And it feels "warmer" than wood. It's hard to explain, but when you go to the flooring store, put down a sample of cork, take off your shoes and socks, and stand on it and see if you experience the same thing before they throw you out.
What really impressed me was, expecting it to be quite soft and easily damaged, after having the dining room table in place for several weeks, I had to move it and there wasn't even a hint of a mark from the four quarter-sized plastic feet. Nothing. Again, ours is laminate (approximately 1/8" surface layer), and other installations may not be the same.
Although one thinks of cork as very soft and porous it doesn't act like it. Water spills wipe up easily and don't seem to soak in, although the care instrudtions advise not to leave any liquids on the seams.
The one downside? Unlike the wood laminate flooring I've installed elsewhere whose seems are virtually invisible, the seams on our laminate seemed as if I had hammered the planks together too hard and raised a slight, I don't know; welt? where the boards meet. I assure you I didn't hit them too hard, especially in the final 3/4 of the installation after I saw how they looked.
However, seams are seams, and every floor has some sort of quirky characteristic.
Now, having said all that, we barely have a year with our floor. However, based on what we've experienced so far, we would install it again.
There was anotherr advantage; I now have a lifetime supply of material from which to make clamping pads from the leftover planks.
You have to assume that any thing that falls to ANY floor will break. If it does not, you are LUCKY. I have had ceramic tile floors in my kitchen for
16 years and before that I had vinyl flooring. Since we seldom drop breakable items on the floor we seldom have a problem even with a 2 year old
16 years ago. I would not use glass breakage as an excuse to not have a nice floor. Additionally I have never witnessed any smell that developed from spills.
Actually linoleum is pretty nice. You are probably talking about vinyl flooring. Linoleum is pretty rare these days and yes vinyl flooring does look pretty crapy.
IMHO worse than vinyl flooring.
Agreed, especially for a kitchen. Consider also, laminate flooring. While I would not consider the Pergo type floors an "upgrade" it does wear very well and pets wont scratch it.
If you are considering cork flooring, you might want to revisit REAL linoleum flooring, not vinyl flooring. You will probably have a hard time finding a supplier or installer unless you live in a large city.
"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in news:Xns96645F3D135BFmc2500183316chgoill@10.232.1.1:
Consider any kitchen floor as a temporary measure. 10 years maximum. Anything past that is pretty much a bonus, if you aren't tired of looking at it by then.
My mothers kitchen floor is >32 years, real linoleum. Cats in the house. Apart from a few tiny (less than 1mm diameter) burn marks where burning coal pieces fell out of the kitchen stove it looks as good as new.
Armstrong makes a floor which is similar to wood floor but looks like tile. It comes in 15" x 45" sections which latch together like the wood floor but have a nice strong covering. I've dropped stuff on them a few times without damage, seems to hold up real well.
Looks beautiful, and is easy on the feet. I like it an awful lot, but I'm just getting around to installing it, so a review would be premature.
You forgot to add the engineered products that are around. Some of those that are made from recycled pop bottles and the like actually look pretty close to a real wood floor, but are very tough and completely waterproof. A really good choice for a kitchen, IMO. They're not always cheap, but neither is cork!
This is just not true with a proper installation (seal the grout).
Not a bitch if you pay a pro. This is a job where I definitely hire a pro.It's not that expensive, it requires that you have a some experience while not requiring a decades of apprenticeship and most importantly, the popential screwups have costly fixes.
I think you a re referring to commercial vinyl tile, *not* peel & stick, The stuff like you would see in a grocery store. It's attached with troweled on mastic. I put this on my laundry room/untility space and I really like it.
I've had the peel and stick vinyl tiles in a decent pattern that lasted
18 years and was still in decent shape when we sold.
The dog factor led me to install a Pergo laminate floor a few years ago. Looked good even though it was a bitch to install(kept moving around on me) and has held up great. Does not take moisture well at the edges so make sure to finish out per factory specs. We used the older glue down which was a real pain. Glue all over everybody. The new stuff can be laid down without glue. Haven't tried it though so I cannot comment. Dogs did not scratch it since it is really hard.
You might take a look at bamboo also if it is locally available. I have not seen it up close but it is hard and is renewable. I think it looks neat.
Am I the only person who thinks dog ownership is a really bad idea for most people? I like dogs as much as the next guy, maybe even more than most people who actually own them, but I just don't see owning one is rational in the 21st century. The same goes for cats for the most part, although some of them serve a purpose in keeping rodent populations at bay, although the cure is arguably as bad as the disease. The problems I have went through because of dogs is just too many to list, but here's a sampler: getting bitten riding my bike on a public street. The fear of being attacked just by walking, jogging or biking down any street. Constant barking from every direction day and night. Yep, my next door neighbors have six dogs between the three houses. Two of them are rabid Rottweiler looking things that just go apeshit every second I'm in my backyard. Fortunately it's just a strip behind the garage and there isn't much reason to go out there except to mow the grass or take out the trash. Incalculable property damage done. Whole houses full of carpet destroyed, furniture, grass, window sills, siding all destroyed by dogs. Men, women and especially small children maimed and killed by dogs. I know of a few tragic cases just in my circle of acquaintances over the years and seeing some of the dogs people kept, I'm actually surprised there weren't more. I know most people aren't going to agree with me, but it really doesn't make much sense. Most of us don't have any sheep to herd or fox to hunt, so what's the point?
This will probably turn into a rather long thread. I have to agree with much of what you wrote. We've had dogs for many years, but our last one, at
14, had to be put down last year. I don't miss having one. No worries about getting back home if we go out, no boarding if we go away for a couple of days.
Dogs can be good companions though. What gets me are the people that treat dogs like children, or even better. No dog has ever slept in our bed.
A couple of houses away, there are five dogs. I'm not looking forward to sitting out this summer if they don't get some control over the barking. Of course it is the owner, not the dogs at fault here and in many dog related problems. Ed
Dogs are given much more lenient treatment than any human being. I can't think of anyone who would sit on a couch after a naked man who seldom bathed had been rolling all over it, but replace that image with a dog and it is suddenly A-OK.
The last time I was bit by a dog, it was a pure-bred, pampered Dalmatian that was just running around loose. It wasn't a particularly mean dog, but I was riding my bike and that's just what dogs do. I was able to find the owner and she acted like the whole thing was my fault. She said I should have acted aggressive to the dog instead of just trying to ride away. I sent her the doctor bill for the tetanus shot and she complained about that too. I don't remember what I said to her, but she paid it without any more arguments.
I just love dogs. The clumsier, the bigger, the goofier, the better. My wife insists that I was a dog in a previous life. Dogs and I get along. The odd one that wants to bite me as I ride by on my bike, gets a shot of pure lemon juice in the eyes... sorry pup.
I currently don't own one, because we want to some travelling and we don't want the bother.
From a practical standpoint, I completely agree with most that Hax has written. They're basically a pain in the ass. They do a lot of damage and cost a lot of money and time.
Hax Planx wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@newsgroups.comcast.net:
If, as someone said, the measure of a person's intelligence is how much he agrees with you, then you are an absolute genius!
I replaced a front lawn with roses, at least in part because I was tired of cleaning up after other peoples' dogs. It's _not_ less work, or less water, but it smells better!
Patriarch
ps: I have a neighbor with a bumper sticker: "Life begins when the kids move out and the last dog dies!"
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