Karl, Leon, others: Advice for hanging cabinets wanted.

Makes perfect sense and more sense than sticking to level by the letter of the law. I think I've done similarly in past without thinking about it in such great depth. I always called it splitting the difference. If it's out of level by 1/4" I'd come down 1/" on one side and go down 1/8" on the other so the gap isn't as bad. But in distance, I like your idea better. You won't notice an entire structure being 1/2" off level over

Clarification: when you say "valance" is that what I call a soffit? The framed up box on the ceiling, covered with drywall, used to fill the space between the top of your cabinets and the ceiling?

So these 12" strips running the length of the wall, at the top and bottom of the cabinets, are essentially acting as exterior blocking. That's where you would normally run 2x's on the inside of the wall, notched into the studs. Do you glue these also?

Just curious why you're happy with this for taller cabs.

So you also use trim screws to join adjacent stiles. I've seem some who will use screws just behind the face frame through the box into the adjoining box. I think I like going stile-to-stile (even if it means some putty in the hole) because it won't warp the cabinet sides.

snipped

I love the idea of those wider shims. This floor is already finished hardwood, which covers the entire floor so I guess any adhesive will do.

One other thing!! Are there any newer techniques for securing peninsulas to the floor?

You do have to split the difference in some cases, and there is never anything perfectly plumb or level, but you do need to shoot for it if at all possible.

Keep in mind that if your base cabinets are not as perfectly level in two planes as you can get them, the counter tops that go on top of them will not be level and the owners will be constantly annoyed by round things rolling around, or to the floor, not to mention the liquid in a container will certainly show it. :)

When it come to butting up against an uneven ceiling with crown that is over 1/2" off or more, the ceiling needs to be fixed .... IOW, ff it's

Many ways to skin a cat, and all situations are unique ...

To me, that's the difference between a pro and a handyman. A handyman will bust his butt trying to hang/set cabinets that are perfectly level and plu mb, and if the walls and ceilings aren't, they get a poor install. When I see an install (from "professionals" too, have no doubt) that have gaps, no n symmetric details, poor margin controls, etc. it bothers me a lot for the m to explain to me that "the walls were out of plumb" so their poor work co uldn't be helped. All they know is the level/plumb.

In most of these old houses or buildings is >is< all about splitting the di fference. If I hung some really nice cabinets and my clients saw ugly trim details and gaps, they absolutely would not care about me proving to them that MY installation was plumb and level.

Yes. Soffits are usually outside. In most cases, these are actually block ed out areas used as a chase to hold pipes, wires, maybe down lights, etc. In the old days, these were the square framed up box that grandma hung her plates on above the cabinets.

We misfired. Probably my poor writing skills.

Let's call the bottom blocks or solid wood boards what they are in framing vernacular, ledgers. These ledgers are not permanent, but they hold the ca binets in place until they are lined straight, then attached one another an d secured to the wall. They are removed after that. There are no top bloc ks/ledgers, even temporary.

Sometimes I hang cabs by myself, sometimes with someone else helping. Rega rdless, I do it the same way. Mounting a 12" 2X4 block where the center of a cabinet will fall allows me to pick the cabinet up, set it on the block, climb the ladder and shoot a screw in the top to hold the cabinet in place . Two screws (not fully driven up) holds the cabinet in place until I can get all of them up on the wall. So the cabinet is being held by a couple o f screws at the top, and sitting on a temp block that was screwed to a stud .

I get the cabinets straight, but not perfect by applying the long wedges. I screw the stiles together, one screw under the top hinge, one screw above the bottom hinge. Colored caps are used to cover the screw heads later at the end of the install.

Once I have the faces secured, I use the wedges as needed to get the cabine ts to string line straight, then secure them to the wall by driving all scr ews up, shooting a brad in the wedges, then cutting them off. I remove the temp ledger blocks, the fill them with a wedge if needed, brad the wedges, then cut them off.

So when finished, the cabinets are screwed to the wall, to the backing what ever that might be, whether is it a plywood backing, solid 2x blocking unde r sheet rock (preferred).

I took a few minutes at lunch today to scribble off a couple of drawings to clarify:

They are down and dirty, but hopefully good enough to get the point across.

A longer wedge provides greater bearing surface, and then reduces movement.

I put a screw under the tops hinge and over the bottom hinge to pull the st iles tight. Sometimes I cap the screws with plastic caps, sometimes I paint the heads, and sometimes I color them with marker. I use large (Deckmate) 3" screws. I countersink them carefully, and since they are right next to the hinges, they look like they are part of the mechanical system. Unless you have heavy carcass cabs, screwing through the sides is of little value .

That being said, I also use longer screws if I need to, and have been known more than once to screw a large upper to a valance or ceiling through the stiles to keep them from sagging. Nothing is safe from me when I have my d rill, countersinks, the correct bit and a pile of screws.

Stick with PL400. It is a proven winner, and it has enough solvents in it to bite into finished materials (like your floor) and will work when the su rfaces aren't perfectly clean. When I do a kitchen, I always think I shoul d have bought stock in that company!

Not that I know of. You might see if you can get Karl to chime in on this one as he has done a couple or three projects lately IIRC, that have penins ulas. I do them the way I always have, and that is to trace the base of th e unit out on the floor when it is in position. I mark back the thickness of the kicks and strike a line. I use 1/4"X3" or 1/4"X 3 1/2" metal tap in s to secure cleats to the concrete floor. Yes, I put PL400 underneath the cleats as it waterproofs my fasteners. Then put the cabinet in place and s crew it through the kicks into the cleats. If the kicks aren't sturdy enou gh, I add 2X4 behind them and adjust the position of my cleats accordingly, and screw the whole shebang together.

Robert

AKA, "furrdown" around these parts.

In cabinetmaking parlance, particularly in kitchens, a "valance" is usually wooden, but sometimes curtain material, located at the top of a window and spans the distance between the cabinets on either side of the window, or the window itself when cabinets aren't involved.

A wood valance in a kitchen most often contains, or hides, a light that shines down on the sink area.

Example of one type of "valance":

You know, I hadn't thought about the difference. When I was framing houses we called anything that we built on site that closed the gap between the ceiling and a feature a "furrdown".

So anything over built in cabinets or coves, the area over bath tubs that would be made into storage cabinets, etc. was a furrdown.

Later when I was more involved in the architectural side, I was building plywood box "valances" for padded window treatments, lighting, etc., and anything else that hung from a wall or ceiling.

Interesting. Just never thought about it.

Robert

houses we called anything that we built on site that closed the gap between the ceiling and a feature a "furrdown".

that would be made into storage cabinets, etc. was a furrdown.

building plywood box "valances" for padded window treatments, lighting, etc., and anything else that hung from a wall or ceiling.

Indeed. Never heard of "furrdown" down (or up) h'year (not in Piedmont VA or E TN, either, for that matter)....

Heard the term "furrdown" all my life, but it can't be just a regional thing because I get constant requests from purchasers (most from out of state these last few years) of the thirty to fifty year old homes in Texas, where kitchen "furrdowns" were common, on whether they can:

"... take the furrdowns out?"

Almost always one of the main topics on the initial meeting to discuss what they want to do. Most of the time the answer is yes, although we do see AC ducts run in furrdowns in some of the newer homes, post window AC unit age.

I've been asked almost as much why the older Texas houses, especially tract homes built in the 70's on up, seem to have them in the kitchens.

My standard response is:

Filling that last 12", between the 8' ceiling and the top of a 30" tall wall cabinet, with sheetrock and tubafours is a whole lot cheaper than a foot more of cabinet (and that may be difficult to reach in the first place).

The old "don't put money where you can't see it/use it"?? ... ;)

Depends upon what you're doing with her ...

The illustrations are awesome! Thanks a ton for taking the time to draw them up and share. Turns out the client could not wait for me to get back from out of town to do the job. But I am taking lots of notes and look forward to my next cabinet installation.

Still using Pencil-Up huh? ;~)

Shows what you know! That's actually "Sharpie Up" which is light years away from Pencil Up. I quit using Pencil Up almost three weeks ago.

Try to keep up, Leon. =8^)

I KNEW you would have to say something!

Robert

Ooohhhhhh, Sharpie-up. Karl! Have we used Sharpie -up? LOL

Does Eraser Up still work with Sharpie Up.

Are you accusing him of making mistakes?

Nope. Sharpie Up is a professional tool for professional use only. You get one chance to do it right, and your only option is to use "Tear It Up" to fix it if you make a mistake.

Bet you can figure out how I know that one...

Robert

Too rich for my blood. ;~) And you gotta know what you are doing.

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 4:25:59 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote: .

Seriously, you have no idea how many "on site" sketches I have made over th e last 35 years. I carry a notebook with me at all times so I can detail o ut all the details on my jobs as needed.

Flashing details on roofs, framing details on remodels, installation detail s for the million little parts and pieces that make up a job, and even sket ches I have my clients sign that detail out measurements and position detai ls.

I usually have a Sharpie, a framing pencil and a couple of pens with me. M y guys make fun of me for "drawing them pictures" but the always fold them up and put them in their pocket. It certainly isn't unusual to go to one o f my remodels and see a piece of quadrille paper tacked/taped to the wall t hat has something completely detailed out down to the measurements. I also sketch on walls, pieces of plywood, etc.

It sure does cut down on misunderstandings.

Robert

No doubt! I recall using sketches, on notebook paper. ;~)

Leon wrote in news:MNednSfPiOf9g snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

I did the notebook paper too, until a few years ago when I asked for graph paper notebooks. Makes it a little easier to draw something and at least get the proportions good enough.

A 6" flexible rule is handy as well. Just something that'll stay with the notebook and make drawing straight lines easy.

Puckdropper