Jointer or planer?

[Leon]

Flatten a board with a sled and a planer. The sled essentially compensates for high spots from the bottom of the board so that the board does not flatten out or rock when going under the in feed roller of the planer. Once that surface is flat, flip the board over and run through with out the sled.

To straighten the edge of a board build a long narrow, 14" or so, and 8' long sled with 2 toggle clamps. The clamps should be screwed to the sled for easy adjustment for different width boards. Rip this sled straight on the TS and then clamp the board to be straightened on the blade side of the jig with the curved edge hanging over the edge of the jig. Use the rip fence to guide the sled and adjust it so that the blade side of the sled is at the edge of the blade. Now run the sled and board through and cut the curved board straight. This is actually easier faster and easier than using a jointer.

[B A R R Y]

Even with a jointer, the face need not be flat, it only needs full contact on both sides of the board over the full length. The planer can then flatten both sides and make them parallel as the board is flipped. In the case of some really nice faces, I've not had enough wood to make both sides completely flat, so the unfinished face is oriented to where it won't show.

I've seen woodworkers face joint, face joint, and face joint some more, until one part of the board is less than finished thickness, but the other face hasn't been touched at all.

[George Max]

Did you read my whole message?

I quote: "or you otherwise use any clever jigs or other contraptions to hold your board as it goes through the planer, you

*might* get away with making the surfaces flat and reasonably parallel to each other."

While possible, far too much rigamarole. My shop time is too limited to allow for something that's going to be different for each board. All that setup. That takes too long.

But as my message says, I *might* do it if the situation presents its self and its justifiable (to me).

[George Max]

I used to use an 8' straight edge and a router for that (long boards.) Not since I got a serious jointer though.

[Mike O.]

I guess we'll have to disagree here Leon. If you have a well tuned saw and a well tuned joiner you can rip rails and stiles for an entire kitchen, join the edges and have a quite uniform stack of material waiting for assembly. The reference fence is still on the table saw but a properly tuned joiner will remove material consistently along the board's edge therefore maintaining uniformity. I have a good number of quality blades but would never consider making face frames or doors without a joiner.

BTW, I've never seen ANY blade (and I've used most brands) that will leave as good an edge as sharp joiner knives or a hand plane will.

Mike O.

[Swingman]

My experience is entirely different ... and my jointer is properly tuned.

The only way _I_ can guarantee that opposite edges are parallel is to rip an opposite edge on a "properly tuned" table saw ... even the best set up jointer simply will not guarantee that, IME.

Besides, parallel edges/faces are not in the job description for a jointer. ;)

And my Freud Glue-Line rip blade will consistently leave as good as edge as is necessary for any woodworking endeavor, if for some reason I feel my Forrest WWII won't suffice.

Your mileage may obviously vary ...

[lwasserm]

This is oversimplifed but I believe it makes a point:

If you have only a planer, you will WISH you had a jointer.

If you have only a jointer, you will NEED a planer.

[George]

Learn to use your jointer. It removes, when properly used, the same amount of material all along the length of the board. Its "fence" is the outfeed table, remaining a constant distance above the infeed throughout, just as your tablesaw blade remains a constant distance from that fence. Only difference is the jointer is capable of taking out bow which might result from new tensioning of the narrower board as well.

It's your woodworker's eye reading the board you're ripping that warns you when it might be necessary to rip two passes oversize. Sometimes even that's not enough.

[Swingman]

Look up above and learn to read.

FACT: If you are attempting to use a jointer to obtain parallel edges/faces, you are misusing the tool.

While you are not a big enough fool to argue that point, as above, you will step to the edge of doing so even though you DO know better.

[J T]

Fri, Dec 8, 2006, 9:16am (EST-1) [e-mail] (George=A0Max) doth query: Did you read my whole message? I quote: "or you otherwise use any clever jigs or other contraptions

Yep, read it. Except, I consider a planer sled a basic accessory, and not a clever jig, or contraption.

JOAT I am, therefore I think.

[Leon]

That is not an absolute. Unless you maintain "perfect" feed pressure the edge begins going off parallel with the first pass, perhaps not enough that you would consider unacceptable.

I have a good number of quality blades but would never

The Forrest WWII on a well tuned saw will leace a surface that shines and reflects like glass. That's what use.

[J. Clarke]

So how long does it take you to adjust your planer sled for each board?

[Leon]

I have an 8' sled and to adjust it for an 8' board it takes about 2 minutes. Then it is good to go for how ever many passes it takes. Shorter boards take proportionally less time. My sled is also good for boards up to about

14". Not many people can afford a jointer to handle boards as wide as their planer. While using a jointer may be a little quicker on smaller boards there is a greater advantage in time on longer and wider boards when using a TS and Planer.

[<marierdj]

Quote :BTW, I've never seen ANY blade (and I've used most brands) that will leave as good an edge as sharp joiner knives or a hand plane will. Unquote"

Before having a 6" heavy jointer, I used a 10 inches, Ripping Hollow Ground-planing blade.

This blade only works when your board is square with the blade, fence and perfectly perpendicular to the table.

To accomplished that I used to secure the board with toggle clamps on a sled and push it between the fence and blade.

Not the ideal solution but it did the work to build three solid wood bedroom sets and dinner room.

Now I make use of top of the line ripping (Freud) blade, heavy jointer and surface planer. This way I can go much faster.

FWIW

[J T]

Fri, Dec 8, 2006, 10:00pm (EST+5) [e-mail] (J.=A0Clarke) doth asketh: So how long does it take you to adjust your planer sled for each board?

Never timed it, but not long. If I'm only doing one piece, then I have to put in some scrap, to take up the space, then use the clamps to hold it all in place. If I'm doing several at the same time, to come out the same, less scrap, same principle. Maybe a minute or less. If you were wedging them in place, I would say a bit longer.

However, if they're rough stock, and I want to take off some off of each edge, then flipping them, and re-tightening the clamps only takes a few seconds. I have to do that reclaiming pallet wood, to get uniform size pieces. Depending on how many pieces I have, I may run a batch thru, taking just a bit off one edge. Then run a new batch thru, not moving the cutters. Once the first batch is shmmed so they'll clamp, it's only a few seconds putting a new bunch in, and adjusting the cutters just a bit. Continue until all are done on one edge. Then adjust the cutters slightlym then repeat, untill all the rough spots are out. This will make all the pieces the same width. It's actually pretty fast. If you don't care if the pieces are the same width, then you can just do several pieces at a time, then more, until done.

I made my sleds at least 6" wide, but you could make one narrow enough to hold just one or two pieces if you wanted.

JOAT I am, therefore I think.

[J. Clarke]

What method does it use to support the curvature of the board so that you get flattening?

[B A R R Y]

I own a really good jointer. I still use a sled similar to Leon's to flatten wide boards that I don't want to rip to 8" before I flatten the face. Like any other woodworking jig, a planer sled is quick and easy, once your mind is in the groove.

Don't use something often? Stay in the groove by keeping a notebook, complete with sketches, and write the really important details right on the jig with a Sharpie.

I'd buy a planer first, and save for a good 6"++ jointer as my next tool.

------------------------------------------------------------------ Repeat after me to use clever jigs and advanced tools:

"I will keep notes, I will keep notes, I will..."

I have distinct notebooks for general notes (jig usage), tool setups, tuning, and maintenance, sharpening, and finishing, (4 books, plus a

5th that sits in my HVLP case) and flip through them before I do something I haven't done in a while. I also keep a rudimentary time log for future estimating, but this is probably unnecessary if you know you'll never, ever charge for a piece.

Above all, have fun. Art, music, and sports always come out better when the participant is having fun.

Barry

[<marierdj]

I own a really good jointer. I still use a sled similar to Leon's to flatten wide boards that I don't want to rip to 8" before I flatten the face. Like any other woodworking jig, a planer sled is quick and easy, once your mind is in the groove.

Do you have some detailed sketches of the your sled I would like to build one. TIA

[Leon]

There are about 8 or 9 even spaced rocker strips that the board actually sets on and these set on the sled. The rocker strips use triangular wedges that are dadoed in to each end and held in place by the very point of a screw. The triangle wedges slide in to raise the rocker strip or slide out to lower the rocker strip.

I got the plans form FWW IIRC. I can repost plans if you would like to see them.

[Mike O.]

The edges of your material should come off the joiner just as square or out of square as they are ripped. The fence on the joiner is inconsequential when cleaning up ripped edges. You could in fact remove the fence entirely though it's not recommended. If your tables are flat and parallel and blades are installed on the proper plane you should be able to repeat the square ness of your rips very accurately. If you rip your stock at 2 degrees out of square you should be able to run it across your joiner (not using your fence) and it will still be 2 degrees out of square. All your trying to do is keep your stock flat on the tables.

That's why you rip them first.

But, if you wipe a wet finger across that edge you will find the remnants of hairline kerf marks. At some point in your building process I'm sure you address those.

Obviously, it does.:-)

I might suggest that not that long ago, before we had the quality of blades we have today, every rail and stile made was either run through a joiner to remove kerf marks or attacked by a hand plane.

Another thing to note is that in any cabinet manufacturing facility that I've been through, sawed edges are addressed in some similar manner. While rails and stiles are cut with a computerized saw, the material edges are cleaned up in some way prior to assembly by either a big automated joiner or planer or some type of sander. A sawed edge is never the final edge.

IMO the joiner is used less and less because people are afraid to use it, don't know how to use it and/or don't know how to set one up. While today's blades may (for some) eliminate the need to join edges, the process has been done since the first block plane and then when some guy figured out how to get the blade from his plane spinning fast enough, it was done with a joiner. Some of us are still doing it.

Mike O.