joint types

[Charlie Self]

Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned, positioned, and reinforced joints.

The last one, I get. I can find only two vo-tech references to the first two, with no explanation at all of what either means. Usually, IME, that means someone has picked up a bit of jargon and is using it to impress others. Sometimes, it means it is obscure. But if it's used to describe vo-tech course work, it shouldn't be obscure, though either use alone brings up NO hits on google.

Any answers? Further questions to research?

Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[MikeG]

Not in any book I own,

[Routerman P. Warner]

Reference (positioned) is to a connection that registers itself. Examples T&G, mortice & tenon, rabbet, glue joint etc. Glue or fasteners will then keep the thing situated but not necessarily add strength to all stresses. A nonpositioned (unregistered) joint will depend entirely on adhesive & hardware for its location and strength. Example: A cross with 2 nails in it, often found along American Highways designating the sites of fatalities.

(Routers)

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[Charlie Self]

Pat Warner responds:

Pat, thanks. In other words, it's primarily BS invented to allow vo-tech teachers to impress their students with vague words.

Woodworking as sociology.

Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Lawrence L'Hote]

Oh I wouldn't hit on the just vo-tech teachers. We science teachers used to do much the same. I got a big dose of this pretentiousness while in the infantry('66-'68). The NCOs used terms like 'retrograde movement' instead of 'run like hell back the other way' or 'defilade position' for 'dig a big hole and hide the armored personnel carrier in there'. Of course, there was 'affirmative' for 'yes.'

Larry

[bridger]

what are those references?

[Charlie Self]

Lawrence L'Hote notes:

I guess all outfits have their jargon, but to expect it to last as a standard of setting nomenclature, it's kind of nice to have it bruited about at least a little. Positioned and non-positioned are not in any of about 30 woodworking texts I've examined. Anyway, the Marine Corps preferred "Aye, Aye, Sir!" to either "Ayup" or "Affirmative."

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[J T]

Tue, Aug 24, 2004, 8:17pm (EDT+4) [e-mail] (Lawrence=A0L'Hote) swears that: I got a big dose of this pretentiousness while in the infantry('66-'68). The NCOs used terms like 'retrograde movement' instead of 'run like hell back the other way' or 'defilade position' for 'dig a big hole and hide the armored personnel carrier in there'. Of course, there was 'affirmative' for 'yes.'

Actually, those terms have pretty specific meansings - but should be appropriate only in textbooks - because too much room for confusion in everyday use. Too many people just plain use them wrong.

But don't blame it all on the NCOs. There is a certain type of young officer, fresh out of college, who wants to "impress" everyone with their "superior" knowledge, by using as many large, and obscure, words as they can. Usually they're the only one who knows what they're trying to say. I've seen 3 page memos (typewritten, single-spaced) written by a new young officer, gone over by someone else, and boiled down to maybe 10 lines. Some NCOs pick up on the habit (usually younger NCOs, but some older kiss-ups too).

That type of officer is too often the type who comes back later andy say something like, "I know that's what I said, but that's not what I meant". Had a lot of civilian bosses the same way. They never seem to learn, you've got to know what, and how, your people do something, before you can supervise them in it.

As far as affermative, and negative, for yes and no, not a bad habit to get into. Could be be a bitch in combat to think you heard "go", but were actually told "no".

JOAT Don't complain: When a dog barks, he loses his bone.

- Bazooka Joe

Porky Pig says:

[J T]

Mon, Aug 23, 2004, 8:55am (EDT+4) From: [e-mail] (Charlie=A0Self) Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned, positioned,

I think I read the same article. But, I've also seen both phrases in reference to welding - there was an "explanation" of sorts, but it didn't make any sense - depended on tip size needed.

To further confuse it, I've also seen the phrases in medical use.

Far as woodworking, Pat may well have it right.

JOAT Don't complain: When a dog barks, he loses his bone.

- Bazooka Joe

Porky Pig says:

[Routerman P. Warner]

Nomenclature may be vague but I believe concept has merit. The relationships, intimacies of the connections, and hardware are indeed profound. A lousy #10 screw in the face of dry maple may tolerate 500 pounds of pull. Exploit that with a joint and some glue and you have furniture that will withstand prison riots, libraries and nursery schools!

(Routers)

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[Robert Bonomi]

"non-positioned" -- away from the lips "positioned" -- at the lips, pending inhalation "reinforced" -- rolled using chemically impregnated paper.

[bridger]

I remember when, for a while, rolling papers were offered with a piece of wire in them... built in roach clip...

[Charlie Self]

bridger notes:

I recall back in the '60s thinking about the entrepreneur who sold brass hash pipes. I thought the guy must have been one helluva turner, crank those things out by the multiple thousands, with little designs on them, tiny bowl. My first experience, I think, with something made in India. The entrepreneur was a salesman, not a metal turner.

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[Swingman]

The real resourcefulness was in the use of helicopter fire extinguishers in a certain combat zone way back when. The bell and contents used to cool down a six pack, the brass pipe joint with built-in screen to toke a little hash ... a little something for both persuasions.

[Charlie Self]

Swingman notes:

We used those CO2 extinguishers in a lot of ways before 'Nam: I sometimes wonder why, with never a fire, the officers never caught on...at least to the point where they had to make a public display of their knowledge. Sort of like all those gallon cider jugs popping their corks in the crawl space under the barracks.

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[Swingman]

I won't go any further, except to admit that we liked a cold beer too ...