Isn't relying of someone else's plans kinda like painting by paint by numbers?

I'm casting the bronze bails for some drawer pulls. Does that count ?

I have absolutely no problem with someone buying hardware. If you want to call yourself a "woodworker", then why should this require you to do the metalwork on a completed piece as well ?

Personally I make things like this:

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I made almost none of this piece - that's rather the point in "found materials".

Reply to
Andy Dingley
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It's not "rice" paper though (pet peeve) Japan has a huge paper making tradition, and very little of it is made from rice straw fibre. Much of it is mulberry.

Toshio Odate's is better.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Guess what my first real major, furniture project was? A Red Oak, raised panel desk. Yes it was from plans. And Indeed I learned alot. Like Color matching, and in particular reading a set of plans the RIGHT way. To understand that last phrase you must realize that my drawers ended up on the opposite side because I machined the panel on the wrong end. Talk about your modifications.:) I still had the reputation for the "GUY with the drawers on the wrong side of the desk". I may still have the plans or at least where they came from lying about.

Reply to
Young Carpenter

Rice paper is simply the traditional name for it. Some shoji are made to have the paper changed annually. I did not want that in mine, so I used artificial.

Reply to
Lazarus Long

Only by gaijin

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Since I am late into this discussion I can add to the philosophies of everyone else. MY Basis: As I understand it Years Ago in the days of master Craftsman (not talking about a Sears line here) and apprenticeship, Design was something that was taught. My teachers always said If you can't draw it you probably can't build it. They had a point. Although it is nice to just buy a plan and build with everything figured out, there are a few things missing, Like Why this joint is this way and not that. Anyway Design was taught buy having them copy out of previous masters plan books. As the student advanced he modified the plan, if it worked it was added to the plan book or the modifications were written in, etc. Finally he got to the point that he knew what was what and drafted his own plan completely. So is it like painting by numbers? Maybe, but as a kid did you have great color concept? probably not. You had to start somewhere. Did the picture come out. Hopefully yes. Thats the philisophical part. The practical part: I agree with Ben Sider on the drafting part. If I had never been to college and learned drafting, carpentry, or cabinet making (a little bit) Then I would probably not even know where to start in my drafting. Sometimes plans are easiser, even now. They help me see various styles and joints and procedures taht I would never had known about. Newbies need to start somewhere. However A guy who has read books and done projects for a year, and asks "I need a plan for a book shelf 3x6 set of shelves" Maybe shouldn't be using those tools in the first place. He problably hasn't learned anything. If he says "I want the plans to Norms bookshelves he did last week made out of Maple" he has a point and wants a certain style. Some guys are lazy wanting gracious people like JOAT to do their work for them. Some are just ignorant. Some don't deserve even the "hobbiest" label. If you won't read, what are you doing here anyway. If you are too cheap to buy a $20 book on design, drafting etc. or spend $$ for a class then find a new hobby. Its gonna cost you huge $$$$$$$$$ in the future anyway. Might as well spend the first few $$ on training. Second Point: some can do the "plans I don't need no stinkin plans" and come up with a master piece. However most people start with a plan of some sort. Remember I said even Master craftsmen had plans. How detailed, is another story. For me it's a skill I have developed. I can now draw basic dimensions and make a descent project. A few years ago forget it. Three. Plans are made to be modified. I cann't think of the last plan I did to the T. Everyone comes out different than the intended. Usually do to my ineptitude, but one of my most recent projects I made a modification 'cuse A. I hated the style. B. if anyone had ever dragged it accross the floor the whole thing would have ripped apart. Conclusion: Shunning your own plans is stupid, shunning other plans is stupid, refusing to learn is idiocracy. off my box for now.

Reply to
Young Carpenter

Bleah.

Charlie Self

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." Dan Quayle, 11/30/88

Reply to
Charlie Self

I think the point was that someone was being denigrated for using some pre-made parts in a cabinet that they made and thus should not have been able to say that they made it. I am not real sure where that line gets drawn (or by whom or why it needs drawn at all). Obviously, you probably make a higher proportion of the parts in your projects than me if you are casting the bails. I often buy dowel rods, wheels, wooden knobs, etc. used in my projects and don't feel any shame in doing so. I guess to a purist I should not be able to say I made my project since even some of the wooden parts were purchased already made. To me it is no different than buying the hinges or the glass. Where does the slippery slope end? Oh well, I guess I have vented far too much on an issue of no meaning whatsoever. Sorry.

Dave Hall

Reply to
David Hall

Dave,

I think David was pointing out that your definition of building something is different than your neighbors. IMO this is a given. FWIW I wouldn't claim to have "built" a cabinet if I bought the drawer face and doors without at least a qualification.

Being in the middle of a large cabinet project right now, I can tell you that the doors are the part of the project that shows your woodworking skills, the carcasses are just box building and can hide a multitude of sins that would be unacceptable for the doors and drawers. And you should see the sins I have committed :-)

-Chris

Reply to
Chris

I just finished building a console to hold a portable TV for our minivan. I built it without plans entirely from my own head, on the fly, changing the design several times midway in the project as I came up with better methods - sort of a learn-as-you-go process. It's just

3 pieces of wood, a base and two clamping pieces that hold the TV to the base and the base to the van seat. I wanted something simple and quick and that's what I got.

However now that I have it built I already have plans to build another one. This time I am going to sketch it out first, but even given more time the first time I don't think I could have come up with this design - I needed to work through the first one and see the results to see where I could improve. Had I viewed someone else's plans first though I might have come up with something better the first time. This is why I like to see plans. My brain seems to work better this way, but your mileage may vary.

-Chris

Reply to
Chris

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