How to toe-screw properly

[Thomas G. Marshall]

I'm making a simple little low table/bench for my deck, and I'm trying to toe screw the 2x4 side rails to very heavy 4x4 legs (just leftover cedar from my deck....I wanted a "heavy" look). I'm toe screwing from the inside to hopefully hide the screws entirely.

To position and countersink the screws I've been (starting with a wide bit) drilling at 90 degrees for a quick 1/4" depth to give me a place to hold the bit, and then redrilling that hole at 45 degrees for another quick 1/4" to make a 45 degree hole ready for the smaller bore drilling and then the screw.

It always seems that this is a harsh way to treat the wood....no matter how careful I am, the bit at 45 degrees likes to much up the grain. Now this is hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

Jeepers I hope I explained this well enough.

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Perhaps it helps to point out that I'm tow screwing on the flat side of the end of the 2x4...2 screws. I want to seat th screw to keep from tearing an angled chunk out, but not too far seated because I'll run out of wood if I go too deep.

Thanks!

[B A R R Y]

You could pick up, or make a copy of something like this:

[Morris Dovey]

| Now this is hidden anyway, but...is there another way to | "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

Drill your 45 degree hole through a piece of scrap to make a drill guide, then clamp that to your apron and use a brad point bit turning at high speed (2500-3000RPM) to drill to the depth you want. You'll probably find a stop collar for the bit helpful.

You might find that a Kreg "Rocket" jig (which drills at 15 degrees) works even better. I'm inclined to see your 45 degrees as a _lot_ of angle...

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Stephen M]

I agree.

Let me add, however, that I would drill pocket holes at a subtle incline, so that the pockets do not collect and hold water.

-Steve

[SonomaProducts.com]

As everyone else indicated the real answer is a pocket screw using a pocket hole jig of some sort. The other option if you have a drill press is to build a cradle to hold the rails at the right angle.

BTW, pocket holes are not at 45 degrees but more along the lines of 15 degrees so the the strength direction of the screw is more closely aligned to the axis of the part (rail). So I think you could\should go go for a more shallow angle.

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Thanks everyone for their replies. This was hugely helpful. I had no idea that such jigs were so inexpensive. Further, it never occurred to me that

45° was far too steep an angle. It also didn't occur to me to make my own jig and clamp it....dunno why....makes me feel fairly stupid not having thought of it.

[Morris Dovey]

| Thanks everyone for their replies. This was hugely helpful. I had | no idea that such jigs were so inexpensive. Further, it never | occurred to me that 450 was far too steep an angle. It also didn't | occur to me to make my own jig and clamp it....dunno why....makes | me feel fairly stupid not having thought of it.

Well, isn't that what friends are for? :-D

We all end up saying "Duh!" at some point. It was just your turn.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Robatoy]

"How to toe-screw properly."

----must be a page missing from my Kama Sutra...-----

[B A R R Y]

Trim the nail first.

[Swingman]

It's a footnote in the chapter on hot tubs.