On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:28:41 -0700, Mark & Juanita
Maybe Americans need to grow up and deal with the reality that oil
reserves are rapidly running out.
It will be a stopgap measure at best, the fact is that China and India
are sucking up tons of gasoline now that they're becoming massively
industrialized and it will only get worse from here. Sure, you might
be able to suck another 10-20 years of oil out of Alaska but in the
end, we're going to be back in the same place with too much demand and
not enough oil to go around.
Only if the currently active tapped reserves are taken into account.
You really don't have a grasp on the amount of coal and shale reserves in
the US, do you?
While deliberate waste is never justified, the idea that having us all
drive Prius's will save the world is hardly a rational approach.
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
From what I understand, Colorado has 10 times the shale oil that all of the
middle east has produced. We have it but we don't want to risk loosing
"the cure for smoking" while going after it and it would certainly cause
more global warming.
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:41:29 -0700, Mark & Juanita
Shale is far too expensive to process efficiently. It only makes
sense if gas is going for $7-10 a gallon.
A Prius is a damn ugly car, actually. The fact is, a hybrid might
help slow the use of gasoline, when gas runs out entirely or gets too
expensive, a hybrid isn't going to do any good. The reality is that
we need to look for a way to rid ourselves of gasoline altoghether.
Gas is a natural resource, there's only so much out there and
eventually we won't be able to find any more. That's like saying
we'll all be able to keep working with wood when we cut down all the
Not to mention that disposing of Prius batteries, after their useful
life has passed, is going to be a nightmare.
But I do think electrical solutions are the way to go, either through
electrolysis to make hydrogen or by charging nano-technology battery-
like packs. The source for this magic electrical juice would be a
variety of generation devices, with the base-loads carried by a
renewed approach to nuclear plants. What-the-hell, the distribution
network is in place already. I anticipate some serious progress coming
out of France in fusion development.
That whole bio-diesel 'fata morgana' is plain silly.
There aren't that many--rice and wheat are the major grains for most
of the world--corn as table food as opposed to livestock fodder is
largely an American (north and south) phenomenon--poor silly furriners
don't know what's good.
But you can also get alcohol from potatoes, wheat, beets, sugar cane,
and many other plants, basically anything with enough sugar to support
All thinking small though--the high tech approach would be a
bioengineered tree that one taps to get diesel directly--one suspects
that such a thing could be bioengineered once biotech matures a bit
more. But talk about forest fires . . .
Not to mention that fuels with alcohol have a negative effect on the engine.
Alcohol attracts water and water does not settle out like it does in normal
gasoline. The higher the alcohol content, the more likely it is to get
And seeing that we're in 'not-to-mention' mode< G>, alcohol has no
lubricity to speak of.
The upside of that, is that it won't break down lubricating oil the
same way as petroleum based fuels can and will.
That fuel-based lubricity, imho, is one of the reasons diesels last as
long as they do. Even with higher compression levels and a much
heavier load on connecting rod and crankshaft bearings.
I still think that the train of thought of recycling entire cars is
what's really screwed up. Like badger.badger pointed out, he's kept
his Landrover running. It is a typical example of what proper
maintenance will get you if you start with a decent vehicle. It also
helps if manufacturers designed vehicles with maintenance in mind
other than the dealership jockeys who only learn to replace
parts....entire parts. Anybody out there still knows how to fix a
fuelpump or alternator?
The energy consumed by melting cars and starting over may look nice as
we 'recycle' metal, but iron isn't what we're short of, what is needed
to melt the shit that IS in short supply and all wrong.
Two cases very close to me prove every day that proper maintenance can
make a car last a long time. My daughter has put close to 400K on her
diesel Jetta, another is a friend of mine with 500K. There are million-
mile taxis in Stuttgart. So they may burn a little extra fuel, but
they aren't getting melted down and rebuilt as a matter of regular
course. Recycling engine oil works!
Off to work.
Again, not for the proposed fuel cycles from any reputable analysis I've
Actually, not really. Alcohol works just fine as an engine fuel for
engines designed for it. The only real significant problems w/ early
passenger cars was in plastics and rubber compounds that weren't
designed to be alcohol-resistant and they dissolved.
Gasoline fuel "drying" products are essentially alcohol in which water
is soluble so it is picked up in small quantities at a time rather than
coming into the fuel system in sufficient "blobs" as to cause icing
Yes the fuel works fine if delivered clean and uncontaminated. If your tank
has water in it as most do, it will mix witht he fuel.
Yes but these products are used in small quantities. Typically 1/8 to 1/4"
of a gallon to be introduced to 15 - 20 gallons of fuel. Alcohol based
fuels typically have a minimum of 1.5 to 2 gallons of alcohol in 15-20
gallons of fuel.
Current "Dual-fuel" vehicles will run all the way to E85 which is 85%
alcohol, not just E10.
The dissolution of any water w/ the fuel is actually "a_good_thing" (TM)
as compared to gasoline as icing and "water-misses" will be a thing of
the past for them (essentially you have a continuous scavenger).
It does take some care in handling, but that will simply be part of the
infrastructure. I foresee no significant issue on that score.
Up to a point, since it does not burn and because it does not compress it
could cause engine damage from tolerances that are too small. Very small
amounts of water in diesel fuel can cause broken pistons and bent connection
rods in a diesel engine. I suspect that a very good filtration system that
could remove the water from the alcohol would be needed.
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