Crazy? (on topic)

[Greg Guarino]

I've been drawing a lot of different things, enough to take me a year to build at my usual pace. But we (now that my wife has found the benefits of custom - if amateur-built - furniture) are entertaining a bunch of ideas that would need to work together.

She tossed out the idea of a bench for extra seating against a wall, but something that could also be used to serve buffet-style. This is what I came up with. Keep in mind this is all schematic so far; all of the dimensions would likely change and I have left out many details:

and

Let's leave aside the question of whether or not I could build this. The legs would certainly present a challenge. But does it raise any red flags that I'm not seeing?

At 70" long (which could change), the span is a concern. I figure that it would be plenty strong in the "down" position for people to sit on, but I wonder if the top would tend to bow with a bunch of (full) serving pieces on it when raised. The top as I've drawn it would be 3/4" ply. I suppose I could double it up; I plan on a border around it anyway.

Comments?

[Leon]

Certainly doable but let me mention some things you need to think about.

The telescoping legs will need to fit relatively snug so that a gap between the outer and inner leg does not show, unless there is not concern for that.

The closer the fit, the more you will need to insure that all legs are perfectly parallel to each other, inner and outer legs.

The closer the tolerances the more the need for raising and lowering to be a two person operation. The upper unit will bind if only one person lifts and does not lift straight up.

That said, the raised unit should not sag as long as you are working with a hard wood apron and it is at least 2" wide.

[Swingman]

Basically what Leon said.

I rather like your concept, and any leg issue can be dealt with handily. Perhaps stout pins which are installed from the inside of the leg instead of showing on the outside?

On another, and IMO, most important note:.

What you, and others like Bill, are doing with SketchUp amply illustrates the amazing value and utility to the woodworker of having this free, readily available means to get his ideas and thoughts down in form that can be shared, as well as inestimably beneficial in both design and build.

Just a few years back it was hard to find anyone who grasped the benefits of SketchUp, and most had to be brought kicking and screaming to the table.

Really nice to see you guys make such good use of this particular bit of technology as a tool in their arsenal. To me, just as important a tool for the ultimate success of the end product as the finest tool and skill you possess.

Kudos in the regard, Greg and Bill! Well done.

[clare]

Piece of cake, and plenty strong.

[Greg Guarino]

I figured to make them pretty loose, maybe an eighth all around, for the reasons you mention.

Exactly. And I think I have a reasonably accurate assessment of my own skills, which is why I'd leave some slop.

Definitely a two-person job, yes.

Thanks. A slightly wider apron. Check.

I just did some more thinking about your "parallel" comment above and have altered the drawing a bit:

[Greg Guarino]

I could do that, although I feel like I'd need to bore halfway into the second side of the leg to support that end of the pin. I think it might be a nice visual element to leave it visible, though.

There's still a fair amount of screaming over here, you just can't hear it. :)

I just discovered something as I was adding leg braces to the drawing, something I remember worked on various CAD programs. I wanted to copy the braces from the "down" drawing to the "up" drawing, but there was no "defined" point on the legs that touches the braces. I selected the three "brace" components, clicked "move" and then chose a point at the bottom corner of one of the legs (a point NOT on the object being moved) as the reference. I dragged the group until that point met the corresponding point on the other drawing, and voila, perfect positioning. Just a few hours ago I was still drawing a "disposable" line to do that task.

The problem now is that I can draw things with relative ease that I may not be able to build.

[Greg Guarino]

Thanks, but I find cakes to be a challenge too. :)

[Swingman]

Times have changed. When I first started touting SU in this forum you'd sworn I pissed in someone's Wheaties.

That's a good thing ... you can now design things that you know you can't build, _before_ getting halfway through a project in the shop and having to design your way out of an expensive corner.

This was an all too common occurrence in the old days, and why even good woodworkers, or those who have yet to snap to the benefits of 3D modeling software, often used someone elses plans for all their projects.

Now, as an increasingly accomplished SU user, you can leverage the learning new skills and techniques, and put that plan money toward a tool, or project supplies.

[Leon]

I was going to suggest that but did not want to alter your design. Those stretchers will certainly keep thing from becoming rickety.

Another word of caution it will work best if you attach the lower stretchers with the upper table section fully down. Test clamp the stretcher is place and make a trial run lifting the table up and down.

[Leon]

On 1/25/2014 2:53 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: Snip

Well you seem to be doing wonders with out a TS. ;~) You may be unstoppable if you get one. LOL

With your above comment in mind, I have been using CAD programs for damn near 30 years now. With out a doubt Sketchup is so ideally suited for wood workers that I finally dropped the use of AutoCAD. This drawing program works so well that you will absolutely become a better woodworker. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years but until I started using Sketchup exclusively I seldom embarked on complicated projects. Now most of my projects would be considered pretty complex and large. With the aid of Sketchup and it's ability to show me every detail from any angle that I want I don't give these complicated projects a second thought, once I am happy with the design, before going to the shop and starting..

[clare]

Could be made simpler. Don't need to drill the outside legs for the pegs. Drill inside legs right at top to store the pins, and at right position for pins to rest on top of the frame when extended - no more problem trying to get the $%# & pins lined up!!!!

[clare]

Very simple to make funtional Not too hard to make pretty. But functional AND pretty can be a stretch!!

[Greg Guarino]

Thanks. I just thought of that while looking at the drawing. Harder to move the unit though; grabbing it by the apron would just pull the top right out. And I do SO hate bending down. :)

[dadiOH]

1. It isn't going to sag.

1. 20" is on the high side for a seat.

[clare]

So put a small braket on the inside of the outer leg to hold the pin. Doesn't have to be much, or very strong - even a little cable loop. Just enough to hold the legs when you pick it up.

[clare]

It's comfortable for guys with long legs like mine.

[Greg Guarino]

Thanks

I quickly measured down from the office chair I was sitting in while I was drawing it. It's probably more like 19. But that drawing is far from a finished design in any case. It would be a good idea to try out some heights, measure some chairs, etc.

[Swingman]

Except for ADA requirements, there are no real standards, but the following offers some good guidelines that are important when designing furniture for use by others:

[Leon]

Is your office chair padded? Padding will be more comfortable if the height is a bit high. If your legs are hanging over a hard edge you might not be so comfortable. Any way our wooden dining room chairs with no padding are just under 17.75" high. Just something to think about. Furniture that you sit on/in needs to have more focus on comfort than aesthetics if you plan to use it for that purpose.

[Greg Guarino]

Yes. Definitely needs some more thinking. Luckily, it will probably be months before I get to actually build it.