I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12
I recall there being a time that there were different colours of Bosch
power tools. Similar in shape, but green and blue versions. I owned
a green (cheaper) Bosch beltsander with bushings and a 'blue' Bosch
beltsander with ball bearings. The green one lasted 5 years after the
'Blue' one died.
The Ridgid R2610 RO sander from The Borg is in fact a German made Metabo
sander and one of the best sanders I have ever bought. I like it almost
as much as my Festool Rotex sander..*G*
Routers and sanders are my life>>> I build solid surface countertops.
That stuff is awful hard on tools.
It is obviously made by Bosch, but that does not make it a Bosch product. I
noticed that they have a clear baseplate, where Bosch has an opaque one.
Sure, that might be an improvement, but they might have produced to greater
tolerances, substituted plastic for metal, or who knows what.
I've often wondered what companies such as Bosch, Delta, etc. do with the parts
that test out of spec and are not used in their own brand products???
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
They don't make them. You can't afford to these days - companies that
still operate by making rubbish and "testing out" the non-compliant
stuff went bust some years ago. Modern manufacturing uses techniques
like SPC so that you simply don't make the bad part in the first
There's still waste in a production process, but this is far smaller
than it was twenty years ago and the stream of "out of gauge"
components being rejected at a late inspection stage has almost
Yup, all it takes is a relaxed specification.
Bronze bushings vs roller bearings.
Hardening? What's that?
Nylon gears (or worse stamped gears) instead of machined gears.
Fewer armature plates and windings - can save lots of money here -
brushes wear out quicker and the motor is not as smooth running but
what the heck.
Lots of ways to make it cheaper. The really tough thing is to make it
We all vote with our buck (pound for Andy) and, in the end, the
companies that survive will be those who get our vote. The question
is - do you want to have good quality tools in the future? If so you
had better start voting for them now.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:47:57 -0500, Hank Gillette
Yes. Extremely high _production_ quality of a very poor specification.
You should see the factory - it's probably gorgeous.
Modern "rubbish tools" are some of the best-made engineering ever
produced. If they were made to the machining standards of a WW2
Rolls-Royce Merlin, they'd simply fall apart. There was a time when
things were well designed, cost was ignored, and hand-fitting to
assemble them was accepted (just look at the process for fitting the
reduction gears on a Merlin - the shaft was torqued to simulate load,
and only then were the bolt holes reamed by hand). These days they
have to emerge from the machine and practically fall together
themselves - no time for careful assembly or fitting.
So if that shaft is loose, it's not loose because it's mis-drilled,
it's sloppy because someone timed how long it took to assemble it when
it fitted correctly, and shaved 5 seconds off the assembler's time by
making it a slack fit instead.
Chrome plate used to be thick because the thickness couldn't be
controlled on corners and the easiest solution was to over-plate to
compensate. Now a shaped anode can control the thickness on edges and
corners to be adequate, so the rest of it can be thinned out.
Not sure what they do but I had a buddy worked at the GM battery plant
if Oshawa. The batteries were tested and if they passed they were kept
as Delco batteries but if they failed they were sold to various other
companies to market as their own. How badly it failed determined which
company would buy it. According to him Canadian Tire took the lowest
grade. I can believe it the last one I bought from them lasted 6 months
and shorted internally, of course I was no where near a CTC store and
went to a GM dealer and bought a Delco - it lasted 6 years.
Not to say that the Sears isn't a good tool, but you can't tell if it's
the same from the outside. They can change the internals - use plastic
gears instead of metal, smaller bearings, etc - without you knowing from
the external appearance.
SWMBO bought a famous maker mixer for a 'good' price from the BORG and
it broke two days later. Seems that the ones that the borg carries have
plastic gears to keep the cost down. SAME MODEL NUMBER as the ones you
buy from kitchen specialty stores which cost more. Difference is inside.
This was confirmed by a call to the mfg. Needless to say, she took it
back for a refund and paid the few extra bucks for the real deal.
I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Is it an inferior product. That depends. Most large manufacturers
make several grades of tools. A Bosch drill would use a metal
clutch assembly, like a DeWalt. The Skil and hobbyist level tool
would use a high impact plastic for the clutch assembly.
Do I need the reliability of a DeWalt. No. I'm not a contractor.
But I'd have to kill three of these Skil Drills to spend the same
money as I would have for one DeWalt.
To put it simply. I'd take a look at the unit itself, and see if
there are any manufacturers information on the unit. If it's the
Robert Bosch Tool Corpororation or some other big name, I would lean
towards having more confidence of it being a reasonable quality
product, versus some no name company.
Bosh OWNS Skil. This does not mean that Skil tools are made in the same
plant, or even the same country, as Bosch tools. Nor does it mean that the
tools are manufactured to the same specs, or that they have to meet the
same levels of quality.
I agree 100%. But I'm a lot more comfortable buying a tool if it
has some attachment to a certain manufacturer than a 100% no name from
the far east, that will start smoking the first time you use it.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:23:23 GMT, Lobby Dosser
The first 1617EVS Bosch router that I bought in August of 1998, the same one
that we are talking about here had to be returned because within 5 minutes
of use the on/off switch failed. The dealer exchanged it for another new
one. Again after the first use I was unable to get the bit out of the self
extracting collet. I totally screwed collet and bit off the router as one
unit and returned again to the dealer. We finally managed to get the bit
out of the collet and had to try 2 more new collets before we found one that
would not lock on to the bit. This was not a case of a bad one out of many,
it was a case of poor quality control.
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