I did have an issue with my 10 year old Echo last spring. I think it was simply due for a tune up, it started out fine but after 3~4 uses it got progressively worse. It took 3 trips to the repair shop to get it right. The questioning that went on was like this. Is your fuel fresh? Yes. Are you using Premium fuel? Yes, And I use Echo oil and B&S fuel treatment. That is great he said but you do not need to use the B&S fuel treatment as the Echo also had that ingredient. I responded that I treat a 2 gallon can that I fill my 4 stroke lawn mower with and I use that 2 gallons can to fill my 1 gallon can for the 2 stroke Echo.
As I understand the fuel stabilizer prevents the mixture of fuel and air at the top of the fuel can and seals the gasoline off from the the humid air in the can, keeping the alcohol from absorbing moisture
Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer? I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so the climate seems to be a non-issue.
Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.
My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research, said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had stabilizer then, when it was needed.
I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas evaporate if you use stabilizer.
The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried about that either, and never had a problem.
Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw can be hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every time.
Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I shared...
Everything you say makes sense, except my experience over the past 60 years says hogwash. It would be rare I'd keep gas over 2 years in any of my equipment, but I have done it w/o a problem. This year, my lawn mower gas will be 3 years old, as it was 2 years old last year and started first pull. Still has the same tank of gas, I expect it will start first pull again. I think the varnish issue is mostly left over from the early days of gas refineries, otherwise none of my equipment would be starting with out a problem.
You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do. Bigger cities that have pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.
My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it did, starting about 6~7 years ago. Still runs like a top with a single pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.
Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other regions of the country experience.
Leon wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
Now that you mention bigger cities, I wonder if their special blends (AKA wallet lining) of pollution control fuels introduce additives that need stabilizer.
No doubt at all. Houston has a winter and "special" summer formula.
All I know is that for years I did not have to use stabilizer additives for 2 cycle or 4 cycle gas. And in the last 10 or so years I do have to use the stabilizer if I buy more than a seasons worth of gas.
My dad bought a new Honda lawn mower about 12 years ago, it replaced his other 12 year old Honda. The new one passes California emissions but is sold in all states. He immediately had problems with the new one and even had to have the carb replaced within the first year. He had to start using additives in his new mower.
It seems, the newer the equipment, the more Californicated they are and less tolerant of less then fresh fuel.
60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.
Bigger cities that have
I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known for it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million it's considered large.
Our 61 year old Gravely never needed special stabilized gas, and still doesn't. Perhaps Texas is selling inferior gas to the rest of the country?
Still runs like a top with a single
All our equipment runs like a top, some of it for over 60 years. None of it is Honda though, perhaps Honda has a defect that requires brand new inferior Texas gas?
True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry? I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the US also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or even more likely, the imagination and hype.
Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20 weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem. The last thing I would do is pay $5-$8 a quart for pre mixed gas? $25 for $3 worth of gas... Makes no sense to me. It is a good idea go heavy on the oil. I think I went a bit overboard but all that does is smoke a bit more.
I reckon. My brother also leads a charmed life. Couple of others in here also lead a "charmed life" as they also don't have a problem. At some point, certainly after 60+ years, I think there is more than "charmed life" going on.
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A quick reading of that link leads me to call total hogwash on that. Number 4 says: "If you do not plan to operate the generator frequently (less than once a month), drain the carburetor following the directions shown in the owner?s manual."
That is about as stupid as it gets. If it's true, and it isn't, I would never buy a Honda generator as there is something drastically wrong with an engine that needs gas less than 1 month old.
By all means do what ever floats your boat. Simply sharing my personal, first hand experiences. I doubt Luck is any part of the picture. No one gets away with 60+ years of luck, with so much varied equipment.
Pittsburgh weather averages Annual high temperature: 61.4°F Annual low temperature: 42.6°F Average temperature: 52°F Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.8 inch
The range is from -20 to around 105. this is from memory, could be a few degrees different. Averages mean something I guess, but if it is 0 for
6 months and 100 for 6 months, the average is 50, so averages don't paint a clear picture by themselves. I really doubt weather or pollution has anything at all to do with it. If you need additives in your gas, I'm thinking it is a problem more with your gas than anything else. I doubt gas in Pgh has needed more additives than the refinery puts in our gas for over 50 years. Oh, both my, and my brothers equipment lives in unheated garage/shed, so weather could effect things, but doesn't seem too at all.
Well, anything over 300,000 is considered large. Houston is 626 sq miles with population of 2.2 million. Allegheny County is 745 sq miles with a population of 1.2 million. Closer to 50% than 5% I think. Still, don't see what that has to do with anything as far as gas going stale is concerned.
True that. All I could add is if you own Honda, or buy gas in Houston, use gas stabilizer.
Maybe to you. ;~) I grew up in corpus Christi, Tx. I consider it a small place, 305,000.
Houston is 626 sq
I said, Houston Metro, 6 million. That would be 8,928 square miles, 12 times larger than Allegheny County. Houston encompasses at least 9 small cities and is adjacent to probably a dozen others. And the metro area includes everything between Houston and Galveston with little open land to distinguish city limits.
That is why we have the special fuels that don't last.
Absolutely, no knowledge of how other areas of the country deal with real and specific problems.
I suspect that all new power equipment has this statement.
Stihl Page 22
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Echo Page 26
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As are we.
I doubt Luck is any part of the picture. No
I have no doubt that you are having spectacular results with how ever you are dealing. Bring your equipment to Houston and buy gas here and you will understand after a few years.
Not to me, the National league of Cities. I found it on-line when looking up population and and square miles of various cities. Note it says "very large" not simply "large" ;~)
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"The U.S.'s 19,492 municipal governments range in population size from very large (over 300,000) to very small (under 1,000). The vast majority (over 90%) of municipal governments in the U.S. have populations under 25,000."
You want to argue that, you can tell them.
A great reason to not live in Houston Metro. If my gas suddenly started to go bad like it used to in the 1920's, I'd be looking for some explanations from someone. Is everything in Texas this backward? Perhaps all the chemical plants are affecting judgement?
Would seem to me that if adding stabilizers to fuel fixed the problem, then why on earth would the refractories not do it for you, like they have been doing for us for over 50 years?
At any rate, just because Houston has problems, doesn't mean the rest of the country does.
Yeah, and California has statements cancer warnings plastered on everything. Doesn't make it true. None of my newer stuff has had a problem with "stale gas" either. Two John Deer tractors and a snow blower bought in the last 5 years and no problems whatsoever.
My Brother has a Stihl chainsaw, and has no problem with old gas.
True enough. My recommendation is move out of Texas, where the gas lasts about a month, according to your sources.
I don't want to go to Houston, and have to deal with all the problems. Why don't you come to Pgh where we have no such problems, and can safely ignore the fanatical rants on Honda literature, and our engines need no special treatments to start easily and last for decades, even with year old gas.
Leon did, indeed, qualify his statement. He made no claims about either you, or the National League of Cities.
[snip NLoC URL]
I don't believe Leon indicated any desire to argue the topic with anyone, much less the National League of Cities.
What relevence do the 1920's have in this context? Not even you were driving then.
What's your problem? There are many places in the country that require special fuel blends for various reasons (climate, smog abatement, politics, et alia).
Or perhaps you simply don't understand the problem and the current set of solutions.
You do realize, I'm sure, that you are posting in a thread which is discussing the long-term storage of gasoline motor fuels, right? Why would the refineries want to spend to add an additive to all gasoline when the by far vast majority of it is burned up with a few days of refining?
But it does. Look at any large metro area, whether it is the NYC area, Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Los Angeles or the SF bay area - all of which use fuel blends designed to reduce smog. Even Davenport Iowa, hardly a large metro area, has mostly E15 and E85 blends - both of which are difficult to store over long periods without causing problems in two-stroke carbourated engines (primarily due to the propensity of the alcohol to adsorb water).
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