On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
As well as with the Bosch. However, as pointed out, on the new Feins, for
"any" blade to fit you will need a $25 two piece adapter, and for the //new
est// top line model you can only use the Fein blades.
Those were scary days. In bulk, you can buy the genuine article for about $
8 - $9 a blade. The problem is that the wood blades are still highly aller
gic to metal, and and the bimetal blades aren't much better than they were.
Not so good when cutting into nail filled wood trim, cutting into baseboard
and hitting a sheetrock nail (or worse, a screw), or hitting an 8d that wa
s toe nailed on the edge of a stud to straighten it out in a wall.
After trying every blade brand and style I could find, I finally found some
that hit the sweet spot for me and I keep both wood cutting and bimetal in
all 3 of my multitool tool bags. The blades are very inexpensive and I fe
el that I get about 90% performance at 15% of the cost of the name brands.
So I keep a couple of each in the two oscillators that go to the jobs, and
a couple in the new Bosch. The "real deal" blades stay with me and I won'
t use them unless I am sure I won't damage them by accident.
These tools can still be expensive to operate if you aren't careful.
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 8:18:15 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Whoa... talk about an early model!! How old is that machine?
I believe you never had a problem with it. Think about it, all your circular saws use friction fit, and unless you have a dirty bushing the blades never slip.
OTOH, I thought the Fein machine started with the wavy pattern around the spindle hole, but no lugs. If it is these, I never saw any reason to change the configuration as I couldn't see how the blade could ever slip.
On 3/18/2017 1:04 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Got it in August 2006
I bought just as there was talk about the lugged model was soon to
appear. found it on the internet for $306. It has the metal case and
IIRC was considered the TOP. Had lots of sand paper and sanding
profiles, e-cut blades, sound blade, and grout blade.
In article <91664aad-3b4b-4b6a-8566-
Nope. My Fein is flat as a pancake in those
areas. And the "adapter" is pretty much
worthless unless you weld it on.
And yes, it is a problem. Circular saws turn in
one direction, the one in which (if the saw is
well designed) the friction tightens the bolt.
The Fein oscillates, one direction tightens the
bolt, the other loosens it. After a while no
matter how much you tighten it, it comes loose.
Doesn't help that it's tightened with a little
dinky Allen wrench.
The blades you link are for the SuperCut, not
the original MultiMaster.
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:52:48 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
Never knew that the early Feins had nothing more than a friction fit. Trul
y, that doesn't make any sense, and I can't figure out how the tool would e
ver work for more than the lightest applications. I expect my multi tools t
o be able to cut everything on the job without the blade coming loose, and
even the cheap HFs do that just fine. They have crudely cut lugs (8) that
hold the blades using a hardened, cupped washer held in place by a hex head
Knowing that Fein was (is?) the undisputed king of oscillators, I have to s
hake my head with wonder that all the heralded German engineering couldn't
solve the problem of slick blade retainage surfaces /before/ the tool was f
irst released decades ago. Surely that had to be an issue they realized in
I guess with nothing to compare it to, it was just accepted that blade slip
page was the way the tool operated.
In article <e01900d6-2090-4aea-906b-83cd6d29e7a9
Fein ultimately did recognize the issue and made
a half-hearted attempt at a retrofit for the
early tools--a little washer with four lugs on
one side to engage the blade and some carbide
grit on the other that was supposed to bite into
the platen (or whatever you call the part that
the blade is tightened against). Didn't work
very well because you couldn't tighten it enough
to get it to bite. Some people took a stick
welder to the thing--one of these days I'm going
to try that.
On 3/19/2017 3:16 AM, email@example.com wrote:
I think I have had mine slip ONE time and it simply was not tightened
The fact that the blade oscillates probably cancels the tendency to
loosen, it tightens as much as it loosens.
I recall talking to a factory rep about the new lug design that was to
come out shortly. I wanted to know if I was going to want to wait. He
of course said no, but he said that I would not be losing any advantage.
I think that if slippage had been a concern that the competition would
not have come on so strongly when the patent for the non-lug model ran out.
Just another thought on this. If your patent runs out you need to
"improve" the design so that you will have an advantage over the soon to
come competition. Had slippage been a serious problem I think they
would have addressed it some where in the 20 years before the patent ran
It is not unusual for a manufacturer to give in to a perceived need that
the customer wants, more of a marketing thing.
IIRC the time my blade loosened was when I had the blade turned a little
left of the direct line of push, naturally the blade wanted to turn the
attachment bolt in the loosening direction.
But with simply pushing the tool in line with the direction that the
blade is pointed, I have not has a loosening issue since.
Also, and this may be the trick too, the rep that I spoke to indicated
to not simply push the blade and tool straight into the work. He
indicated to also use a slight back and forth motion to help clear the
teeth. I did find that the tool cuts faster when using that motion.
I tighten enough that the tool, if it stopped in the left extreme of
travel, upside down, will turn to the right extreme direction when
tightening. And as I stated earlier pushing in line with the length of
the cutting attachment is very helpful. If the tool is right side up
and the blade is pointed right of center and you push in line with tool,
not the blade, the blade can loosen. In that case you need to push with
you hand on the head directly behind and in line with the cutter. And
as I mentioned before, a talk with the rep ironed out several issues.
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:13:06 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Well said, and very true. Every manufacturing company whether it is refrig
erators or skateboards lives on "innovation", real or perceived. "Innovati
on" brings the latest and greatest item to the market, and brings a reason
to purchase to the consumer.
To me, that is what is going on now with the "Starlock" system with the bot
tle cap blades and accessories. They claim that the new system transfers X
X% more power from the motor to the tool head, and that it prevents blade s
lippage and possible operator injury. I think it is collusion that the two
best manufacturers have come up with a new configuration for tools that wi
ll a new standard whether we want it or not.
Since I have never seen (I take J. Clarke's word on his experience with his
)a lugged Fein or Bosch that had blade slippage. Neither of my 8 lug HF mo
dels have any, and I certainly wouldn't hold them up to any high standard o
f manufacturing tolerances.
There may be some marginal improvement with the new blade configuration, bu
t I think at best this was a solution that was looking for a problem.
On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 9:24:28 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
Mike, yes they have. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, and a well
written review is worth about that much, check it out. This is a well wri
tten article, and the comments at the bottom certainly reflect my feelings.
Is this a solution to a problem that didn't exist? Is this a marketing p
It has a drawing, and then a picture of the "3d system" blades with the lar
ge concave cap that looks like an old beer bottle cap.
Here is a look at the various adapters for he new Starlock, including one f
rom Festool. I would be PISSED OFF beyond reason to have a $500 - $650 Fes
tool multitool only to find that to use certain blades I will need to buy s
omething else, a frickin' adapter for a tool that worked great as designed.
From what I have read, Bosch CLAIMS that their new offering will still use
any blade out there with the tool as purchased, no adapter required. Fein
on the other hand makes no bones about it, you need the adapter to use the
old style blades with their new system. Note too, they do mention in the r
eview/article that there is speculation that the new blade configuration is
nothing more than a market gimmick.
Regardless of Bosch/Fein's claim that they will lock up better (no empirica
l evidence presented or found by me) and that they will reduce multitool in
juries (huh?), I don't believe it.
It is obvious that these guys want back in the blade business. Repeat buye
rs of consumables are what make some of these tools profitable beyond their
actual utility. I think that Fein has made that clear with their now "top
line" model that will not use any blades except their new configuration. N
ow that the folks on the Pacific Rim have mastered their multi tool blade/a
ccessory manufacturing I almost never buy the Fein/Bosch blades, or anyone
else's. I have bought a bunch of these, and at $1.75 each they kill it.
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
When I got my first batch, I put them on a tool, and cut through 10 nails I
shot into a board for testing purposes. Barely showed any wear. Cut thro
ugh a couple of yellow pine 2x6s, then through another 5 nails. As with al
l bi metals, the smaller teeth can make it a challenge to cut wood, but the
se worked as well as expected. After all that, the blade still had a lot o
f life left in it. Knowing that I could cut through sheet rock and into a
16 gauge plumbing shield, rip down the length of a nail that was used for a
previous repair (like an 8d), cut downwards through a sole plate and nick
concrete, and all the other stuff that happens to these blades during blind
/plunge cuts, why would I spend $10 a piece when they could be ruined in a
The only blades that beat them out on the job, and I wouldn't want to live
on the difference, is the Bosch or Fein. DeWalt, Dremel, HF, Lowe's (Blue
Hawk) are OK to awful in quality. Besides, if I am going to spend that much
for blades, I am going to the top of the chain for an extra couple of buck
BTW, lots of Youtube chatter about the Starlock system, some like it, some
don't, like most, they use these tools once or twice a month (if at all), b
ut the ones I watched don't consider the cost of consumables as part of too
l ownership and cost to own. Saving $7 - $8 a blade or more can easily put
you in the range of buying other tools you might need.
I guess this blade change business pisses me off as I have lost money on it
in the past. I had industrial rated circular saws that I spent a /lot/ of
money on that had diamond arbors. Remember the diamond knockouts on the s
aw blades? Seen one lately? The new blades without the knockout were chea
per and easier to make, and rendered the knockout obsolete, even though it
was vastly superior at holding blades. Likewise, same deal on recip saws.
Bought two saws that used blades that had an extra indexing and hold down
notch stamped into the blade. They quit making the saw blades with the not
ch in them, so the new blades (as we have now) wouldn't work as the peg in
the saw chuck wouldn't allow the blade to sit flat when tightened. Had the
same thing happen to my larger jig saw with an old Bosch I bought. I had
to use Bosch blades as they had a slightly thicker shaft. An old Rockwell
that was in the tool box for a while used the same blades. Then they start
ed with "T" blades, and simply quit making the blades those saws used.
Each time these changes came about I was left holding tools that represente
d a good sized investment that were useless after blades stocks ran out.
I think that with the millions of multi tools of all sorts (including Fein!
) that use the old system, blades and secondary market blades will continue
to be available. Not too worried, but still pissed off at myself for buyi
ng into tools that used only proprietary consumables. Never again.
On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 9:50:08 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
If you bought on or around late May of 2016, then it might be a Starlock. It would be marked as a Starlock machine.
If you can pick up a blade with the bottle cap top without touching the release/lock lever like this
you have a Starlock.
If your blades look like a bottle cap at the mounting head of the spindle like this
you have Starlock machine.
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