Bosch oscillating tool review

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

As well as with the Bosch. However, as pointed out, on the new Feins, for "any" blade to fit you will need a $25 two piece adapter, and for the //new est// top line model you can only use the Fein blades.

Those were scary days. In bulk, you can buy the genuine article for about $ 8 - $9 a blade. The problem is that the wood blades are still highly aller gic to metal, and and the bimetal blades aren't much better than they were.
Not so good when cutting into nail filled wood trim, cutting into baseboard and hitting a sheetrock nail (or worse, a screw), or hitting an 8d that wa s toe nailed on the edge of a stud to straighten it out in a wall.
After trying every blade brand and style I could find, I finally found some that hit the sweet spot for me and I keep both wood cutting and bimetal in all 3 of my multitool tool bags. The blades are very inexpensive and I fe el that I get about 90% performance at 15% of the cost of the name brands. So I keep a couple of each in the two oscillators that go to the jobs, and a couple in the new Bosch. The "real deal" blades stay with me and I won' t use them unless I am sure I won't damage them by accident.
These tools can still be expensive to operate if you aren't careful.
Robert
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On 3/17/17 12:41 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Did they change something? I've only had mine for a couple years and I can use all the other blades.
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On 3/17/2017 9:24 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

The older Fein's blades mounted like a circular saw blade, strictly friction fit, no lugs. If you want the non slip you need the adapter. I have not found the non lugs to be an issue however.
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On 3/17/17 9:51 AM, Leon wrote:

My Fein has the splines on the mount and all its blades have the slots.
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No lugs on mine, wanna trade? :-)
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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 8:18:15 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Whoa... talk about an early model!! How old is that machine?
I believe you never had a problem with it. Think about it, all your circular saws use friction fit, and unless you have a dirty bushing the blades never slip.
OTOH, I thought the Fein machine started with the wavy pattern around the spindle hole, but no lugs. If it is these, I never saw any reason to change the configuration as I couldn't see how the blade could ever slip.
goo.gl/F24sDF
Robert
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On 3/18/2017 1:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Got it in August 2006
I bought just as there was talk about the lugged model was soon to appear. found it on the internet for $306. It has the metal case and IIRC was considered the TOP. Had lots of sand paper and sanding profiles, e-cut blades, sound blade, and grout blade.

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In article <91664aad-3b4b-4b6a-8566-
@aol.com says...

Nope. My Fein is flat as a pancake in those areas. And the "adapter" is pretty much worthless unless you weld it on.
And yes, it is a problem. Circular saws turn in one direction, the one in which (if the saw is well designed) the friction tightens the bolt. The Fein oscillates, one direction tightens the bolt, the other loosens it. After a while no matter how much you tighten it, it comes loose. Doesn't help that it's tightened with a little dinky Allen wrench.
The blades you link are for the SuperCut, not the original MultiMaster.
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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:52:48 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:

Never knew that the early Feins had nothing more than a friction fit. Trul y, that doesn't make any sense, and I can't figure out how the tool would e ver work for more than the lightest applications. I expect my multi tools t o be able to cut everything on the job without the blade coming loose, and even the cheap HFs do that just fine. They have crudely cut lugs (8) that hold the blades using a hardened, cupped washer held in place by a hex head screw.
Knowing that Fein was (is?) the undisputed king of oscillators, I have to s hake my head with wonder that all the heralded German engineering couldn't solve the problem of slick blade retainage surfaces /before/ the tool was f irst released decades ago. Surely that had to be an issue they realized in testing. I guess with nothing to compare it to, it was just accepted that blade slip page was the way the tool operated.
Robert
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In article <e01900d6-2090-4aea-906b-83cd6d29e7a9
says...

Fein ultimately did recognize the issue and made a half-hearted attempt at a retrofit for the early tools--a little washer with four lugs on one side to engage the blade and some carbide grit on the other that was supposed to bite into the platen (or whatever you call the part that the blade is tightened against). Didn't work very well because you couldn't tighten it enough to get it to bite. Some people took a stick welder to the thing--one of these days I'm going to try that.
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On 3/19/2017 3:16 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I think I have had mine slip ONE time and it simply was not tightened enough. The fact that the blade oscillates probably cancels the tendency to loosen, it tightens as much as it loosens. I recall talking to a factory rep about the new lug design that was to come out shortly. I wanted to know if I was going to want to wait. He of course said no, but he said that I would not be losing any advantage.
I think that if slippage had been a concern that the competition would not have come on so strongly when the patent for the non-lug model ran out.
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On 3/19/2017 8:50 AM, Leon wrote:

Just another thought on this. If your patent runs out you need to "improve" the design so that you will have an advantage over the soon to come competition. Had slippage been a serious problem I think they would have addressed it some where in the 20 years before the patent ran out. It is not unusual for a manufacturer to give in to a perceived need that the customer wants, more of a marketing thing.
IIRC the time my blade loosened was when I had the blade turned a little left of the direct line of push, naturally the blade wanted to turn the attachment bolt in the loosening direction.
But with simply pushing the tool in line with the direction that the blade is pointed, I have not has a loosening issue since.
Also, and this may be the trick too, the rep that I spoke to indicated to not simply push the blade and tool straight into the work. He indicated to also use a slight back and forth motion to help clear the teeth. I did find that the tool cuts faster when using that motion.
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In article <0LmdnVRyEOR0DFPFnZ2dnUU7-
says...

You're either very lucky or have the muscles of a gorilla if you've never had the blade on a first generation Fein pop loose in the middle of a cut.
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On 3/19/2017 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

I tighten enough that the tool, if it stopped in the left extreme of travel, upside down, will turn to the right extreme direction when tightening. And as I stated earlier pushing in line with the length of the cutting attachment is very helpful. If the tool is right side up and the blade is pointed right of center and you push in line with tool, not the blade, the blade can loosen. In that case you need to push with you hand on the head directly behind and in line with the cutter. And as I mentioned before, a talk with the rep ironed out several issues.
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On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:13:06 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Well said, and very true. Every manufacturing company whether it is refrig erators or skateboards lives on "innovation", real or perceived. "Innovati on" brings the latest and greatest item to the market, and brings a reason to purchase to the consumer.
To me, that is what is going on now with the "Starlock" system with the bot tle cap blades and accessories. They claim that the new system transfers X X% more power from the motor to the tool head, and that it prevents blade s lippage and possible operator injury. I think it is collusion that the two best manufacturers have come up with a new configuration for tools that wi ll a new standard whether we want it or not.
Since I have never seen (I take J. Clarke's word on his experience with his )a lugged Fein or Bosch that had blade slippage. Neither of my 8 lug HF mo dels have any, and I certainly wouldn't hold them up to any high standard o f manufacturing tolerances.
There may be some marginal improvement with the new blade configuration, bu t I think at best this was a solution that was looking for a problem.
Robert
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On 3/19/17 3:16 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Believe it or not, my HF tool did *not* have those lugs and it rarely loosened. I know HF added them at some point, but I have the model without.
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On 3/19/2017 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I really believe the lugs are a feature that is not necessary unless you tend to be hard on the tool, and maybe not even then.
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On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 9:24:28 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

Mike, yes they have. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, and a well written review is worth about that much, check it out. This is a well wri tten article, and the comments at the bottom certainly reflect my feelings. Is this a solution to a problem that didn't exist? Is this a marketing p loy?
http://toolguyd.com/bosch-fein-starlock-oscillating-multi-tool-interface-pr eview/
It has a drawing, and then a picture of the "3d system" blades with the lar ge concave cap that looks like an old beer bottle cap.
Here is a look at the various adapters for he new Starlock, including one f rom Festool. I would be PISSED OFF beyond reason to have a $500 - $650 Fes tool multitool only to find that to use certain blades I will need to buy s omething else, a frickin' adapter for a tool that worked great as designed.
From what I have read, Bosch CLAIMS that their new offering will still use any blade out there with the tool as purchased, no adapter required. Fein on the other hand makes no bones about it, you need the adapter to use the old style blades with their new system. Note too, they do mention in the r eview/article that there is speculation that the new blade configuration is nothing more than a market gimmick.
Regardless of Bosch/Fein's claim that they will lock up better (no empirica l evidence presented or found by me) and that they will reduce multitool in juries (huh?), I don't believe it.
It is obvious that these guys want back in the blade business. Repeat buye rs of consumables are what make some of these tools profitable beyond their actual utility. I think that Fein has made that clear with their now "top line" model that will not use any blades except their new configuration. N ow that the folks on the Pacific Rim have mastered their multi tool blade/a ccessory manufacturing I almost never buy the Fein/Bosch blades, or anyone else's. I have bought a bunch of these, and at $1.75 each they kill it.
(Amazon.com product link shortened) p/B00YG84DJ6
When I got my first batch, I put them on a tool, and cut through 10 nails I shot into a board for testing purposes. Barely showed any wear. Cut thro ugh a couple of yellow pine 2x6s, then through another 5 nails. As with al l bi metals, the smaller teeth can make it a challenge to cut wood, but the se worked as well as expected. After all that, the blade still had a lot o f life left in it. Knowing that I could cut through sheet rock and into a 16 gauge plumbing shield, rip down the length of a nail that was used for a previous repair (like an 8d), cut downwards through a sole plate and nick concrete, and all the other stuff that happens to these blades during blind /plunge cuts, why would I spend $10 a piece when they could be ruined in a few seconds? The only blades that beat them out on the job, and I wouldn't want to live on the difference, is the Bosch or Fein. DeWalt, Dremel, HF, Lowe's (Blue Hawk) are OK to awful in quality. Besides, if I am going to spend that much for blades, I am going to the top of the chain for an extra couple of buck s.
BTW, lots of Youtube chatter about the Starlock system, some like it, some don't, like most, they use these tools once or twice a month (if at all), b ut the ones I watched don't consider the cost of consumables as part of too l ownership and cost to own. Saving $7 - $8 a blade or more can easily put you in the range of buying other tools you might need.
I guess this blade change business pisses me off as I have lost money on it in the past. I had industrial rated circular saws that I spent a /lot/ of money on that had diamond arbors. Remember the diamond knockouts on the s aw blades? Seen one lately? The new blades without the knockout were chea per and easier to make, and rendered the knockout obsolete, even though it was vastly superior at holding blades. Likewise, same deal on recip saws. Bought two saws that used blades that had an extra indexing and hold down notch stamped into the blade. They quit making the saw blades with the not ch in them, so the new blades (as we have now) wouldn't work as the peg in the saw chuck wouldn't allow the blade to sit flat when tightened. Had the same thing happen to my larger jig saw with an old Bosch I bought. I had to use Bosch blades as they had a slightly thicker shaft. An old Rockwell that was in the tool box for a while used the same blades. Then they start ed with "T" blades, and simply quit making the blades those saws used.
Each time these changes came about I was left holding tools that represente d a good sized investment that were useless after blades stocks ran out.
I think that with the millions of multi tools of all sorts (including Fein! ) that use the old system, blades and secondary market blades will continue to be available. Not too worried, but still pissed off at myself for buyi ng into tools that used only proprietary consumables. Never again.
Robert
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On 3/17/17 6:34 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

My Fein has what looks like the starlock mount. I guess I have a newer one.
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On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 9:50:08 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

If you bought on or around late May of 2016, then it might be a Starlock. It would be marked as a Starlock machine.
If you can pick up a blade with the bottle cap top without touching the release/lock lever like this
http://www.kelvinpowertools.com/blog/blog/new-bosch-fein-starlock-system
you have a Starlock.
If your blades look like a bottle cap at the mounting head of the spindle like this
https://fein.com/en_us/starlock/
you have Starlock machine.
Robert
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