On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:07:31 -0700, Doug Winterburn
Well if I could get it, I might do. I can get air-dried douglas fir,
but it's premium stuff at premium prices, not construction. The real
reason for construction timber being kilned is that it's cheaper that
way - nothing wrong with that.
Besides which, I'm in the UK. We don't frame our houses - we're smart
little piggies and build them out of bricks. 8-)
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:47:28 -0700, Doug Winterburn
I still don't think you appreciate what George and I are both saying -
there are three sorts of timber, not two; kilned, air-dried and green
or semi-green. We're not claiming that this _undried_ timber is
better / drier / more stable than kilned, just that properly air-dried
and long-seasoned timber is. Air-dried is the primo stuff, and
expensive, because it's such a slow process.
I don't know a source for non-kilned, non-premium Douglas fir around
here. OK, so the sawyers will have the odd tree, but that's
negligible. If I had a timber-framing project that was using it, I'd
buy it as standing trees. There's a tiny amount as decorative timber
that's air-dried, but that's a rarity too. The bulk construction
warehouse trade stuff is _all_ kilned. If there was any around that
was cheaper because it was less than dry (which seems to be the stuff
you're talking about), then it's just not visible. Almost all is
imported - it's dried before they ship it.
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:02:44 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:
No argument, but this is not as common in the US with framing lumber as it
is with hardwoods.
In the US Borgs, you won't find KD lumber. You will see doug fir labeled
as green as well as hemlock fir. That's why it turns to boat lumber asa
soon as you get it out of the stack and home and why it squirts water as
you drive a nail into it. To get KD, you need to go to a non Borg
You need to check your labels. S-Dry is the standard for construction
lumber. Has more to do with durability than stability. If you don't get
wood below about 25% MC you get mold. Thus the <20% standard. If you can
find a green (other than color in PT) 2x4, take a picture of the grade stamp
and post it for all of us.
Doug might be confusing grade with degree of dryness. Appearance grades are
dried to a lower initial MC than construction grades.
You go down the dimensional framing lumber aisle, and other than cedar and
redwood, it's all "green doug fir". And they do build with it and get it
approved. As I said at the beginning of this thread, I wouldn't use it.
Here's the answer. http://www.wwpa.org/dfir.htm
Go to "Moisture content and seasoning. I imagine they're trying to avoid
what we've all come up against at one time or another, the ability of fully
dry DF to reject a nail. One of the reasons why eastern Hemlock wasn't used
This appears to be a hornets nest but I'll wade in. Kiln dried lumber
has some advantages.It has been held straight while going thriugh
cycles and there fore has less tendeny to warp.(Air Dried can have the
same.) The sap has been set( If you saw yellow pine and air dry you
might have a expierance of the rings coming apart.)The last portion of
kiln drying is a heat cycle that makes the sap solid. The water held in
wood is in two different parts of the board. Air drying does not
release the celler water kiln drying does. The celleur water does not
cause the major warpage but is a dimensional problem.
Now talkiing about older furniture. The masters built there works
understanding what they had and built it for that mediam. Air dryed
lumber has its advaaantages and that is being dried to the area that it
is going to be used. It has a better musical resonates. Its cheaper.
The problem is that any wood that isn't kiln dried is considered air
dried, this is totally wrong. Air dried is when it has been dried
sticked and dried appropiately.
You google this?
Painting the ends after the board is sawn into 4/4 or 5/4 planks is
unnecessary. The rest of the board will dry fast enough to limit end
checks. I see load after load of hardwood leaving, and none is coated.
Never bothered with the stuff for personal use, either. I think that's why
it's cut at 100" , so 96 will always be useful.
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