Wiring an electrical cooker

[geoff]

In message , James writes

Quite often, there's an extra socket in the box - this doesn't mean to say that the cooker shouldn't be plumbed in properly

[Stephen Howard]

Yeah, he could...but it looks like James had the commonsense to work out that he might be a tad out of his depth with regard to this issue and figured it would be best to ask someone who knows about these things before diving in with a screwdriver and a 5 amp fuse.

He's also bright enough to realise that the 'ear bashing' he got didn't come out of malice but rather a very real desire to get across how very dangerous it could be to fool about with a mains appliance like an electric oven unless you're absolutely sure you know exactly what you're doing.

I suspect too that he's now well informed enough to know exactly what your advice is worth.

Everybody wins.

[Eiron]

And the OP can watch the electrician turn off the switch at the wall, disconnect the wire from the old cooker and connect it to the new one, then he will know that he could have done it himself.

Plenty of malice up there in the thread....

[mark.hannah]

messagenews:0Dn2j.25418$ [e-mail]...

Hi James,

Can you let us know what the electrician does - I'm kinda curious about this.

As far as I know, cookers require a 6mm cable and need to be on a dedicated 30 amp circuit. When you buy a new cooker, they don't supply any cable with it in-case the user connects a 3-pin plug to the end and plugs it into the wall. I've heard that this is a *very* common cause of nasty problems.

I'm curious as to what happened to the cable from your old cooker? I'm guessing that if someone else removed it, then they also removed the feed from the isolator in the interest of safety.

So assuming that you already have a functional 30amp isolator connected on it's own circuit, I'm sure that the electrician will simply need to re-instate the feed from the isolator to the new cooker.

Definetley a job for a qualified electrician, and I'd expect to be billed for no more than 1 hour of time for this job.

Mark.

[James]

I would have used a 13A fuse lol :)

Exactly, it your handled me with kid gloves I guess I could've hurt or killed someone accidently. For that I am very grateful, that is why this is my first port of call when someone I'm not 100% on.

:)

[James]

I was going to post back to let you know how it went.

Ok I called the local electrician who has done much work for us and alot of people in the past. I called him at 9.30 hes fully booked out untill Feburary! but he was working on a job 10 mins from me doing something to do with shop fitting .? .. anyway he said he'd pop round in his lunch break! top man.

He came he looked wondered back to his van came back with some testing looking equipment, checkedout the blanking plate and socket and what the red switch activated. Basically the place where the blanking plate is where the cooker is suppose to be connected to in simple terms he said. And the socket there is just a socket for another appliance not controlled by the red switch. \He then wondered off to check something at the main fuse box area for a little while. Came back and started doing erm god knows what (I thought I pestered him with many questions as is and left him to it) 13 mins later my cooker was wired up and working, hes turned on everything oven, hobbs etc and tested something ..? maybe a load test or just checking its all functioning. Hes used 6mm T&E cable. All the things he did and checked made me realise this is not a job for someone who has no idea about electrics. My cavaliere attitude about it being childs play is back in check :)

I'm thankful for the solid advice as ever. *thumbs up*

I nuked him a lasgne as it was his lunch time and while that was doing he looked at the old one cooker and the wire which was a 3 core wire like a kettle one or anythhing like that and was shocked that was connected to a socket! He said who did that and I said my wifes brother in law whos suppose to be handy at electrics! I was away on business when he did this I actually don;t trust him and told my wife to get an electrican in but she ignored me and by the time I returned from my business trip I forgot. Although in the 5 years of it being like that there were no problems electrc wise. I felt a little sick after that as that could've killed someone :(

total bill came to £46 and he knocked off £6 for the lasagne and cuppa lol. Nice guy.

Even advised me not to let my brother in law anywhere near my house with a screwdrvier.

Alls well and ends well thank god.

So thanks again all.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:03:47 -0000 someone who may be "James" wrote this:-

Glad it all worked out well in the end.

For completeness, the sort of socket which a cooker could be wired to is shown in

outwith a large kitchen there is no reason to do so.

For a domestic sized cooker the 32A socket might be adequate, but the 63A version would be essential if a 45A protective device is in use. This sort of socket is rather different to the ones on normally sees in houses.

[ARWadsworth]

There are many models like this.

Well said Ron

Adam

[Ed Sirett]

It probably does say 440V on the back - many many cookers are made for a selection of different supply types ( including 2 and 3 phase options) and at various nominal voltages. They are then configured for a particular region or market by means of connecting straps so as to (in this country) render the unit suitable for 230V single phase.

Since this is a replacement a Part P notification is not required (although it is debatable whether this cooker is a true like for like repair).

It concerns me that what we would expect to be a cooker connection outlet is describe by the OP as a 'socket'. Perhaps the original installation was irregular or indeed there was a (13A) socket which will need to be changed. Or indeed there may not be a suitable supply already installed.

[Ed Sirett]

Very often the cooker connection outlet is replaced with a 13A socket. There are a number of reason to do this. Including:

To provided a remotely switched 13A outlet for supplying .... a dual fuel cooker the ignition of an inset hob some other appliance (fridge, washing machine, dish washer) that is conviently located where the cooker supply comes out.

The insturctions for this new cooker seem to require a heat resistant flex of at least 4mm². This is significantly different to the usual requirement of 6mm² T&E cable.

[John]

My kitchen (1988) has one of these outlets:

felt competent to wire in a new oven.

[Nick]

Two points come to mind... ( at least )

1) How long have Argos been selling appliances intended for use on 440 V ?

2) Even if the cooker had been wired up to the 13 amp socket, and assuming he had got a 13 amp fuse in as well, about the only thing that would have happened is the fuse would have blown...

However.... I suppose several people could have been killed if you really tried hard enough..... could have wired the source phase to the cooker earth and arranged everyone to hold hands and hold on to a water pipe whilst the other one touched the cooker..

James didn't sound stupid - just unaware of the electrical requirements - in fact at least he was bright enough to ask and take note of the good advice given...

Nick

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:26:04 GMT someone who may be "Nick" wrote this:-

That is one possibility. However, protective devices do not operate instantly at low overloads and it is under these circumstances that fires tend to be started.