Who prefers traditional units?

Which is the precise point.

In terms of a worthwhile means of measurement, which can only be from a large sample of people with varied demographics over a long time (e.g. a generation or more) there is not definitive evidence one way or another in terms of outcome in quality adjusted life years.

It is known that statin drugs reduce undesirable blood lipids in certain groups of patients. To that extent, they do as billed.

We also know that there is some correlation between poor lipid profiles and poor outcome from cardiovascular events.

What we don't know is whether poor lipid profiles are causal for poor CV outcomes and we also don't know whether statins, using a broad study base over a long period affect outcome.

However, it's a very long stretch to say that statins don't work at this point. The most pessimistic honest view is that they may work.

To that point, a small sample taken from what happens in one bit of the ambulance service is not useful in any way at all as corroborating evidence one way or another.

The only valid way to compare outcome is to test across a wide population for an extended period, which is what is happening. If we adopted the principle of don't use a new treatment because it might not work, we would be in the middle ages.

Reply to
Andy Hall
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I have several running in parallel. One of them is my personal healthcare

They are what they are and politically and economically influenced.

The problem is that most people don't realise that the NHS is not a benevolent sugar daddy constituted to take care of their every health need, but a very poorly run public bureaucracy which cynically metes out treatment via obfuscated policies that cn be manipulated at will. At best, the philosophy is one of how can we treat the most patients or run the shortest queue per amount P. It should be one of what is needed to treat individual (I) n order to achieve the most effective outcome. Cost is a factor, but the NHS conveyor belt mentality is simply not useful in terms of patient care, just forming a convenient way for civil servants to minimise their workloads.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Really good idea.. get highly trained(?) doctors and nurses doing the admin and have less managers.

Reply to
dennis

Of course it is useful if it is positive.. it takes more to "prove" the negative.

Reply to
dennis

How does that discredit BMI? Arnold may be unhealthy and suffer because he had a high BMI even if it is muscle.

Reply to
dennis

The real problem is that the NHS has become a political football, dominated by idiotic targets set by politicians with a self interest, but no hands on experience.

Most of the staff are genuinely interested in helping people.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Perhaps the English should vote for independence, and secede from the United Kingdom. But that would mean giving up Scottish oil....

Reply to
S Viemeister

You are that fat and ugly :-( ?

Good job I can run fast :-)

Dave

Reply to
Dave

:)

Reply to
Clot

True darned true. I worked for a utility prior to and post its privatisation. In the run up to the privatisation we were shedding staff. Our main disposals were accountancy type staff who were jumping to the Good Ship NHS as fast as they could. As far as I see it, it is stuffed full of administrators that have reasons to ensure that Nanny State is advised of their essential role.

Reply to
Clot

If it's statistically insignificant, which this is, and is also an uncontrolled experiment, it's not relevant in either direction.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Precisely, which is why it should essentially be shutdown and a completely different arrangement consructed where the lunatics are not running the asylum. Healthcare is a political issue in every country. As soon as one puts together a pseudo-national organisation that grows without bound to be the third largest employer in the world, it becomes, by definition a continuing disaster. Throwing ever increasing resource at it makes matters ever worse because the bureaucracy screws up the sharp end. Targets are "met" not by actually making real improvements, bu by tweaking the operational procedures and the criteria for success.

This is why patients should have the opportunity and be encouraged to take much more responsibility for their own healthcare and for the medical machinery to support that. One of the reasons that we have a third rate system is because people still cling to the idea of commonality regardless of geography. This is complete nonsense anyway, but what should be happening is for patient individual requirement to be addressed.

Instead of this, we have a massive organisation with a marketing budget to promote that what it's doing is a good idea. We have a population that largely do not want to take responsibility for themselves, especially in the area of healthcare and are happy to continue funding this monster effectively out of money they "don't see". It's highly convenient to do that and to visit the quack when something breaks, receive white pills to pop and continue as normal.

Ultimately, that doesn't serve anybody at all well, because the NHS does not provide what people fondly imagine that it will and for a variety of reasons wil sell them short. Again it comes back to individual responsibility. By far the largest difference to a person's health can be made by themselves.

Reply to
Andy Hall

What makes me scream is that the NHS should be acting as a huge experiment/data source. But in reality the experiences of patients are not even being recorded, let alone fed back to improve the system for future patients.

If you have a recognised problem, if your problem is the preserve of one specialty, if you are lucky, you might get diagnosed and treated well. But of course, only recognised problems appear on statistics. So none of these oddities are properly represented on the politicians' lists/tables/etc.

If you have an unusual problem and push hard enough, the system might send you to see lots of people but each one looks at you against their own usual suspects - and likely crosses you off the list because you do not have one the "their" problems.

My particular hate is that doctors often will not prescribe thyroxine (replacement thyroid hormone) or will not prescribe as much as the patient needs in fear of the effects of overdosing (and possibly being 'done' by the GMC). Ignorance plays its own part. Unfortunately, the effects of underdosing can be dreadful and many patients would rather take their chances with a higher dose and the risk of slight overdose than suffer every minute of every day with being underdosed (or not dosed at all).

As hypothyroid patients get 'free' prescriptions, some doctors are reluctant to diagnose them as it adds to their drugs costs. (Of course, they were granted 'free' because some other people recognised the life-supporting nature of thyroxine.)

Reply to
Rod

The message from Dave contains these words:

The necessary correction could already be built in.

The current standard is WGS 84 and "The WGS84 datum is an average of the various continental drifts". (I can't seem to get away from quoting Wikipedia these days.

Reply to
Roger

The message from S Viemeister contains these words:

What a good idea. For 2 or more centuries Scotland has been a financial drain on English resources but as soon as there is a hint that the situation has temporarily reversed short sighted Scots start banging the drum for independence. Good luck to them and if they can take Liz 2, et al with them so much the better. The English crown really died with Liz

  1. Personally I have my doubts about the tax flow from so called Scottish oil. For a start it is by no means all found in Scottish waters and it is far too easy to confuse the tax on the oil at time of extraction with the tax on road fuel levied at the pumps which amounts IIRC to some 65% of retail price if VATon the fuel duty is included. Most road fuel is sold South of the border, if population is any guide, 90% or so.

Reply to
Roger

As you wish.

Reply to
Huge

Do you *really* want to be killfiled?

Reply to
Huge

What Scottish oil? Draw a line at 90 degrees to the coast at the border and see where the oil falls if it is done to international treaty. Then you assume the Orkney isles don't want independence too. The only thing the Scotts have is hydro electricity and far too much say in UK politics.

Reply to
dennis

I got bored with france

better make the most of it - last of the series this Friday

Reply to
geoff

This is a very good explanation as to why national formulaic medicine doesn't work.

Reply to
Andy Hall

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