What (new) building/local regulations would YOU enforce in 'flood plain ' builds?

[dennis]

Given how high above sea level Brum is I don't think we need to worry about getting it to the sea. The rest of the country has already gone so we can just pump it anywhere we like.

[Roger]

The message from "Brian L Johnson" contains these words:

They are silting up anyway in the relatively slow moving sections in the valley bottoms that have flood plains. The natural course of events is for the rivers to constantly change their course gradually building up the level of the valley floor with deposited silt. Once there are houses on the flood plain dredging would be the only way to maintain historic water levels at equal flows.

There are some things that can be done to shift the flood risk up or down stream. Upstream of towns by introducing choke points to increase flooding on the relatively inexpensive farm land and downstream by relieving the natural choke points as suggested by John above.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That is interesting also. A way to store an utilize rwainwater..coopled with a wind pump to use for e.g. toilet flushing...split plumbing eh?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Good creative thinking here. Like it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well sell the excellent gravel and sand to fund it.

[magwitch]

So's clearing a storm drain, but someone's got to do it. They proposed chopping 60 million off the budget over the next 5 years and this lot will end up costing at least 3 and a half billion. Typical.

Apparently the displaced, more southerly jet stream is going to stay exactly where it is 'for the next few months' according to the Met Office. Lovely autumn and possibly winter too coming up (not).

[cynic]

The EA seem to be obsessed with "nature" topics and are bloody useless at doing what they should be doing such as keeping flod banks maintained, rivers dredged, costal groynes maintained and at least keeping us at the defence standards the Victorians enjoyed. There are too many suits and too few indians nowadays. In my locality we used to have the Yorkshire Ouse River authority and a few drainage boards mostly composed of farmers who "knew" the land and its needs. Achieved much using manpower very simply and cheaply instead of the current highly educated but largely innefective, highly paid battery of staff with a plethora of expensive machinery.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Hear bloody hear.

"Initiatives" "Consultations" "Workshops" "Official Inquiries" "Bollocks!".

Just pay some people to go round and DO something.

We came upon a couple of chaps who were fiddling about with a ditch... 'what you up to?'

'Oh? we are making sure the road gullies to this ditch are clear'

'Oh, well when I walk up here in winter in me wellies, I usually kick them myself to clear the crap out and drain this bit of road'

But of course we have a tory council, so money is spent on public services, not on public servants.

No, we don't have gay lesbian shelters, or rape crisis centers, or park and ride schemes, or bendy busses that are simply mobile traffic blockaders, or traffic congestion caused by traffic calming chicanes, we just have, for the most part, postmen that deliver the post, refuse people who empty the bins, and occasionally even when we haven't put them out, walk up the drive and collect em..roads that are not great, but are passable, not too many road signs, almost no speed cameras.. farmers who go out and cut their hedges and clear dangerous trees without involving the council at all, and dredge their ditches because its their bloody land and they know exactly how to keep it at just the right moisture level for their crops, and so on and so forth.

[Derek Geldard]

OK : Give us a figure that would be significant.

DG

[Arthur2]

99% of people are within a short distance of a telephone pole or even street lighting. Preparation for this type of disaster should include strengthening these poles to carry a communal electric supply line. And in times of flooding people could connect to an outlet to provide electricity to where they live. Then people could stay in their homes on their upper floors where at least 90% have bathrooms. This would simplify the logistical nightmare of the flooded neighbourhood recovery processes.

Arthur

[Arthur2]

I forgot feeding arrangements. So the emergency services couldn't provide meals on wheels. It would have to be Chips on Ships :)))

Arthur

[Owain]

Many local councils no longer provide Meals on Wheels anymore anyway - it's weekly deliveries of frozen microwaveable meals, and many schools have lost their kitchens too, so there is no infrastructure for preparing and cooking fresh food.

Owain

[Brian L Johnson]

I don't know about the value of the gravel, but the silt is extremely valuable. If the EA is encouraging the sale of land to the Nat Trust because the land is no longer suitable for arable purposes, that's because the rains have washed the (extremely fertile) surface topsoil into the rivers where it eventually finds its way into the Wash.

As you said in 'Another Thread', with the fens now all being below sea-level, there's an ideal opportunity to build the surface up again with landfill. Top it all off with dreged silt and sand to bring back the fertility, and Robert's your father's brother.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:08:02 -0700 someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

Although I agree with much this is debatable. Electric cables work fine under water and provided the fittings are above the water level, or submersible ones are used, the electricity system can continue as normal.

I doubt if many in towns would welcome overhead supply poles being put into the streets.

[nightjar]

A well-sealed car will float away. I've seen it happen with a car that was trying to cross a flooded ford. Fortunately, the ford had a raised footpath on the downstream side that stopped it going too far.

Colin Bignell

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed. Many supply cable are run below a permanent water table. Of course replacing telephone cables with fibre would make them more resilient.

[Jules]

Hmm, maybe there's a danger that moisture will get into the fittings by some sort of wick effect up the outside of the cables?

You know, I'm picky about street furniture and stuff, but I hardly ever notice the power poles when I'm in the US. They typically seem to be wooden and a lot higher than UK equivalents, so aren't as noticable (plus the roadsides are generally tree-lined, but there's not always the space for that in the UK!)

The lines running from poles to individual houses aren't as nice on the eye, though.

Thinking about it, some of the power in the village here in the UK is above-ground too and not really noticable - no different from overhead phone lines, after all.

I suppose the sensible thing to do would be to combine streetlamps, telegraph poles, and power poles into one wherever possible, so that there's less clutter at ground level.

cheers

Jules

[The Natural Philosopher]

Wait till you fly model planes Jules.

You will notice those poles.

BTW the reason why the overhead supplies and phone lines are diminishing, is because they are LESS reliable than undergrounded ones..Yeah, even in ducts full of water.

Its easier to waterproof a joint that ISN'T flapping in the breeze as well, and there aren't many tipper lorries and tree branches falling a meter below soil level.

Biggest danger is diggers and heavy traffic..

[Arthur 51]

Great!

Arthur

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:26:15 +0100 someone who may be Jules wrote this:-

In general water climbs less than a millimetre were it encounters cables and then stops, just like it climbs when it meets other things such as the walls of test tubes (where the effect can be seen easily). If it climbs more then this is because there are two closely spaced things to allow wicking, such as an inner and outer sheath of a cable. If that happens then the cable is damaged.

Of course if that does happen then the little bit of moisture would just run out of the bottom of many standard fittings.