What is this electronic component?

Jan 11, 2015 49 Replies

It seems obvious to me that you're not an 'engineer'. :-)

The microphone manufacturers are well aware of this phenomena. Indeed, to the extent that a major design goal is to _minimise_ diaphragm mass to reduce the unwanted effect of external mechanical vibration producing an output signal in competition with the air borne sound waves they're designed to detect.

However, in this particular usage case, it would be most useful to enhance this otherwise undesired effect by increasing diaphragm mass to enhance detection of the vibrations injected into the body of the microphone itself. The extra mass in this case acting as a 'counterpoise' to magnify the relative movement of the diaphragm with respect to its mounting. It's simply "Mechanics 101".

However, if the piezo transducer is being tasked to both emit and detect vibrations as in the case of my own electronic scales (it only beeps to indicate it has finished measuring btw) then it'll remain unmodified to avoid compromising its performance as a sound emitter and its inherent shortcomings as a microphone utilised 'as is'.

Since the manufacturers of my particular model of bathroom scales manage to successfully detect the 'wake up toe tap' signal without such embellishment to the transducer, economies of scale in production will apply equally well even for those models which don't require it to be used to provide audible feedback as well (thus answering my musings on the absence of such mass enhancement to the piezo transducer). The inherent shortcomings of the piezo sounder as a microphone is sufficient of itself to nicely serve this purpose.

And, I agree! :-) I was merely musing on a possible enhancement to detect such mechanically coupled low frequency (not subsonic) vibrations injected into the body of the microphone via the body of the housing by tapping it with a foot (but only if the piezo transducer wasn't required to also act as a sounder).

Since, in the case of my own bathroom scales, the transducer _does_ do double duty as both a speaker and a microphone, then, clearly, such modification is unnecessary. Detection of such vibrations is clearly achievable without false positives from airborne sounds by using extra gain at the LF end of the audio spectrum without the extra expense of a custom mod to a cheap 'n' cheerful piezo sounder.

Regardless of whether or not the transducer is also used to give audio feedback, there's obviously a universal commodity detection circuit that's incorporated into what's most likely, a dedicated IC for use in all such weighing machines.

If I'd given this a little bit more thought beforehand, I'd have realised this and saved you all from this little side discussion. :-(

I'd expect the cct to not frequency filter. To get the same output as from a tap using audio would require a hell of a volume.

NT

Thanks for that endorsement but, after a little more thought, it's obviously unnecessary. What prompted me to muse on the use of adding extra mass to the transducer was it's apparent use simply as a toe tap detector since the OP reports a total lack of any audio feedback beeps from his model of bathroom scales.

As others have pointed out, using an electronic solution to achieve a similar result is a far cheaper way to implement the required detection and discrimination against spurious airborne sources of low frequency vibrations without compromising the transducer's performance as a speaker in models which do provide audible feedback beeps.

FFS a tap IS audio.

Why are you arguing with te one person who actually has the real life experience of designing shot like this? And NO audio circuit is NOT filtered.

Its just a matter of how..

one op amp two capacitors and 4 resistors most of which you need anyway is hardly bank breaking - especially if the chip itself has the resistors.,

If you notice, it's not fully mechanically supported. It's only attached to the circuit board at single point so any vibration isn't damped.

do microphones stop working when not clamped to Mick jaggers rubber lips?

Is there something in the water tonight?

yeeees

I wasnt

you can get into pedantic questionable pov argument mode if you want. My point was there is no need to try to filter out audio, as in speech, hifi systems etc, because the volume is minimal compaerd to tapping. There is no need to design in any filtering.

no good engineer spends on a cap they dont need.

NT

However they are in fact needed anyway.

Piezo transducer thru resistor to opamp -ve input, output thru R to -ve input. +in grounded. Output direct to wakeup pin on chip. Where are you putting your capacitors?

NT

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