Well OT - expected life of public buildings; leisure/sports centre

[charles]

Try finding the 1960s computer chips.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No problem TTL schottkky TTL and ECL still all available.

[Josh Nack]

It got junked due to the very valid reason that it was always hopelessly uneconomic.

Because it was never going to be economically viable to ensure that that sort of accident couldn?t happen again.

[Theo]

- and by that point, the plant will be difficult to repair or replace like-for-like. The plant is likely to be more of a challenge to replace than a domestic setting, where central heating is pretty modular these days, there's no AC, etc. Also swimming pool plant will likely suffer a similar fate.

Also, if you have to do renovations you either have to shut the building for months or organise the building equivalent of a contraflow while it is renovated while the building is still occupied. If you can build a new one elsewhere, you just need to shut for the weekend, move all the kit over, and open on Monday morning in the new place. The old one is then free to be demolished/repurposed/asbestos-stripped/whatever at its own pace, rather than expensively doing it while open.

Also a 1980s shed looks like a 1980s shed. Sooner or later people will start complaining it's 'outdated' - a problem you can solve better with a cheap rebuild than an expensive refurbishment. It will take a while before 'bog standard 1980s shed' becomes 'architectural heritage'. (I think we're probably there with 'bog standard 1880s shed')

Theo

[Robin]

Retail space may be a bit of a special case as bricks-and-mortar shops are mostly low-tech.

And there is of course a spectrum. Eg the target life of new British Library was (from memory) 250 years.

But a lot of office space is designed with 30 years in mind and (especially if the area has unmet demand) redeveloping rather than refurbishing *is* better value for money. Hence eg the fuss when the Britain-in-Aspic tendency want to list buildings such as the 1980s Broadgate complex at Liverpool Street which owners want to demolish and rebuild. A fuss which has resurfaced this summer.

[Chris J Dixon]

Last year I attended an open day to celebrate 40 years since Salford University attained its status. Since I left a number of what were in my day new buildings have already been demolished (1). A whole student village has appeared since I was there and already been replaced.

Meanwhile the old Victorian Technical college building remains in daily use.

(1) Chemistry tower, complete with paternoster. Civil Engineering block in the loop of the Irwell

Chris

[Max Demian]

The University of York was established in 1963 and the new buildings were already falling apart when I went there 20 years later. They were well known to be jerry built: Wentworth College had visible painted breeze blocks in the interior, and Alcuin, the one I was allocated to, has been rebuilt, or at least added to - I thought the original buildings were demolished but maybe they were just refurbished.

[spuorgelgoog]

Stirling University (1968) was nothing but visible painted breeze blocks inside.

(The Pathfoot Building was selected by the international conservation organisation DoCoMoMo as one of sixty key Scottish monuments of the post-war era. It was also voted as one of Prospect's 100 best modern Scottish buildings.)

Owain

[spuorgelgoog]

But retail is getting more high-tech and traditional high street shops aren 't closing just because retail is diminishing, but also because retail is m oving to edge of town retail parks and trading estates, with customer parki ng and flat floor-plans for fork-lifts. Compare a Screwfix branch with a "F our Candles" hardware shop.

Owain

[Max Demian]

Maybe it's a 'style' then. It can't cost too much to skin some plaster over the blocks.

[spuorgelgoog]

Not per room, but if you assume 2000 on-campus bedrooms, £100 per room = nearly a quarter of a million on plastering, plus the delay in program me in waiting for it to dry out.

There're only half a million books in the library, so another 4000 books at £50 each would be a considerable increase and money better spent.

Owain

[Andrew]

Horsham District Council tried this excuse with the one at Broadbridge Heath. A new one is opening soon, but i'm not sure if it is on the same spot as the old one which was only built in 1985.

A lot of new houses are being built all around that area.

[bert]

In article , Cursitor Doom writes

Concorde got junked for two reasons

1 9/11 killed its market and planes were flying virtually empty

1. Most of the original design engineers were retiring and it was very difficult to sell Concorde maintenance as a career opportunity to young aeronautical engineers with no replacement on the horizon.

[tabbypurr]

No it was canned because it was uneconomic. Thousands of pounds ticket price to save so little time just didn't add up for almost all people.

Concorde was always a dream. The wild increase in wealth the plan relied on never materialised. It was never entirely realistic.

Concordski is an odd story.

NT

[whisky-dave]

I think it was more than just uneconomic, it was also quite cramped and compared to the modern airlines lacked comfort and space inside. yes I have been on it. It was also quite nosiey and needed a long runway.

It was also coming to teh end of it's natural lifespan being over 30 years old.

Well, it was for a while but things change, america didn't produce anyhting better but did try.

Conccorde was built before we joined the EEC too.

[Cursitor Doom]

Is that the one they call the "flying coffin"?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Nah. That was either the U2 or the Lockheed lightning

[bert]

Starfighter - German/Nato version.

[David]

ME 110 in the 2nd World War.

Cheers

Dave R

[Vir Campestris]

It was economics that put the nails in the coffin.

They found out that many businessmen thought they were paying far more than they actually were. So they put the price up, and thus killed the tourist trade.

Then a slump killed the business trade...

At least I got one flight in it.

Andy