Given that in my lightest tent you can almost see through the groundsheet, a little protection from abrasions wouldn't be amiss.
I once thoroughly cleaned a tent for a trip to Australia and didn't reproof the groundsheet. It took a while to discover it was porous. :-(
Those kind of tents are OK provided you have an infernal combustion engine to lug them about. The modern stuff is so much lighter.
Who of course have access to Magic Leather which never suffers the same problems with waterproofing as the merely high quality leathers all other manufacturers are stuck with using...
Personally I wear Yeti gaiters, and that works very well for keeping my feet dry in leather boots. They're not cheap but as well as keeping your feet dry they also preserve the boot's upper from a lot of the horrors that walking through acid bogwater all day tend to visit upon them. Fairly mad for DIY, gardening or m/cycling though, and if I really wanted dry feet for those I'd wear wellies. Quite often for walking too...
Pete.
In the late 80s I switched from a Force Ten to a Saunders Sapcepacker. Both 2 man tents, one 7 Kg, the other 2 Kg. Does make a bit of difference carrying it about.
Of course the Force 10 groundsheet was as tough as they get, but having said that the Spacepacker has never leaked, including a time in Norway when I went to sleep over thawing snow and woke over thawed snow (i.e., water).
Pete.
Nope, Altbergs are great for motorcycling, in all weathers.
And I hike in them as well. (As there is no room to carry hiking boots when on a DTW trip).
But its a religious thing.
Even if Nick Brown comes across as a bit of an arse, the product is good.
Yes. That's the phenomenon. While I have never had much water work through reasonable groundsheets, I have found that some gets through when they are on standing water.
My suspicion is that the conditions under which the head of pressure are measured are a long way removed from those that appertain in real life. But I have never seen a precise description of the former, nor even a scientific one of why 'work through' occurs - my assertion of transient overpressure is my understanding of the phenomenon.
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
If the makers of Altberg boots wanted to sell more they A) improve their customer service and B) improve the boots.
Compare to the waterproofness of watches, perhaps: a watch rated as withstanding a head of 50 meters of water is noted a "being suitable for taking a shower",
100m as "you can swim with it" (in the German Wikipedia, the English one is little less conservative).Thomas Prufer
Yes, a watch that is rated at 50m but shouldn't be used in a swimming pool suggests possibly true but unrealistic claims - rather like a step ladder that's rated for a static load (might explain why some of my jobs take so long). then there's the 2kg tent that needs at least 1kg of additional groundsheet and extra bracing in a gale. My old Vango Mkii featherweight (plus ridgepole) withstood a gale at the top of Glencoe that flattened frame tents, just with the standard pegs stuck in a gravel(ly) car park.
Perhaps we should have a walker's form:
50m - suitable for taking hillwalking, if worn under a jacket 100m - suitable for orienteering, except in the HighlandsRegards, Nick Maclaren.
Hard all-weather buggers in the uni strolling club, you know.
Yeti's will also stop your toes falling off at -20 when you wear them over your Altbergs. When you're riding your bike without the luxury of heated clothing. For a fortnight. :)
The latter can exceed the 100m limit.
Huh? Typical orienteering gear is lightweight polyester/nylon trousers and top, and lightweight shoes many of which now have open mesh panels. (See
None of which are remotely waterproof.
Precisely. The 100m is is supposed waterproofness of watches! Someone commented that it isn't enough, which I can believe, but I wouldn't bet on a showerproof 50m watch surviving more than one wet orienteering session!
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
I use a "50m water resistant" watch. It seems to do pretty well upside down in the sea when surfing kayaks and given it can do that it's not surprising it survives wetter Os too.
Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if all "50m water resistant" watches were /not/ created anything like equal. Mine's a Casio (as was its predecessor, which also did genuinely underwater fine, but I managed to bugger it up somehow trying to change the battery).
Pete.
In message , snipped-for-privacy@cam.ac.uk writes
I suppose you need to consider the effect of thermal variation on the watch internal air pressure adding or subtracting to the depth effect.
Right. I had one "50m" watch that I dipped 2" into a bath for under a second, and dried it immediately. 3 days later, it stopped.
I regard the standard 50m/100m markings as so much marketing bullshit, and doubt that the watches are even tested - even if they are, it isn't rare for devices to work when straight out of the factory but not after any real use, let alone after having the battery changed.
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
Experience of that general nature was one reason I chose a Citizen Eco Drive watch [2]. No battery to replace. [1] I did not want the risks inherent in a DIY battery replacement, nor the cost of a manufacturer battery replacement every year or so.
[1] I know it does have some sort of energy storage battery and, eventually, that might replacing. But is is not one of those "It's Christmas coming up so I'll need a new watch battery" affairs. [2] Yes, there are other manufacturers who avoid the need for regular battery changes - and still not need winding. My partner's Eco Drive watch had been so good, for her, that I went down the same route.
I have a Seiko diving watch, which I have owned for nearly 30 years. It's had 3 batteries in that time ...
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