Water meters - above ground or below?

[Timothy Murphy]

There has been renewed discussion in Ireland about the installation of water meters (as it was claimed people were leaving taps on in the great freeze), but the current proposal seems to be to install them underground, near the stopcock.

All the ones I've seen on the continent are inside houses, where the water supply enters. This must be much cheaper to install - the one I saw last week in Italy looked very simple - so what is the advantage, if any, of burying them?

What is the practice in the UK?

[Bruce]

It makes it more difficult for the householder to bypass the meter.

[Andy Cap]

You can fit them without gaining access.

Andy C

[<me9]

Round here (Northumbrian water) they seem to be mainly installed in the footway replacing the stop tap. My in-laws had their's installed under the sink (Severn Trent water?). It does seem to vary.

[Tim Watts]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:47:46 +0000, Andy Cap wibbled:

And it's a good excuse to replace the stopcock that's probably knackered.

It might make the remote reading technology simpler (the van can be within 5' of the meter). Perhaps that's moot now with better technology, and I have seen internal meters with remote senders connected by a wire through the wall.

[Frank Erskine]

Northumbrian Warer fitted mine beneath the sink. Had they fitted it at the stop-tap they'd have had to dig and things like that.

Actually the work was done by a contractor who is a daughter company of NW.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Tim Watts writes

There was one when I moved into this place. Blue plastic body with a digital readout. A cable ran from the meter to a white plastic lump which I assume carried batteries, judging by its weight.

The meter failed - it ran fast, very fast, even with the stop tap fully off, as if I was filling a swimming pool. United Utilities would not believe me when I phoned to report it. I was practically accused of having bypassed the meter.

The first two "engineers" took a look and pronounced it fault-free. Third one seemed a bit more clued up. "Nothing wrong with that mate" he said. OK, I said, now turn the stop tap off. "Oh, it shouldn't be doing that". Do you now agree that it is faulty? "Yus"

He toddled off to his van and fitted a traditional mechanical meter.

By the way, got the bill recently. Most of the charges were for sewage and wastewater disposal. The actual water charges were quite modest.

[Dave]

We had one fitted late last year and it was fitted in what you might think of as an out house that contains a bin cupboard with a simple door knob, a meter cupboard, where I thought would be their preferred place, that has a triangular key to get in to do the reading.

But they fitted it in the part where only us can unlock the door. When I questions this, they said it would be a big job to bury it next to the stop c*ck, so any underground leak between the stop c*ck and the meter, I don't have to pay for :-)

They have been round once to read it and had to knock on the door for access.

Dave

[F]

That's where I installed ours. That way I don't have to pay for any leaks up as far as the meter.

[Roger Mills]

The default in England (Severn Trent area, anyway) seems to be to put them inside - just above the stop-tap - if possible, with a disc [1] on the outside wall which allows remote reading. In cases where the internal stop-tap is inaccessible (usually under the kitchen sink - with varying levels of accessibility), they replace the external stop-c*ck and put it there - but that usually means digging up the pavement, which is more expensive.

I've just had one fitted under the kitchen sink. [It replaced one which *I* fitted there a couple of years ago in order to assess whether I'd save money. Initially, there wasn't much in it - but we've been using a lot less water since my 99-year-old f-i-l died, so it was time to go onto a metered supply]. From the householder's point of view, an internal one is preferable because: a) it's easier to monitor your usage, and b) if there are any leaks in the supply pipe between stop-c*ck and house ,

*you* don't pay for the leaked water [1] It's actually a bit fatter than a disc - more like a conduit junction box. A thin 2-core cable comes from the meter and connects to two terminals at the back of the 'disc'. Anyone know how it works? There's no connection to any source of electricity, and no obvious batteries. I assume that there's someting inside the 'disc' which counts pulses, but how it is powered? The bloke who installed it didn't know how it worked, but seemed to think that it "generated its own electricity".

[Rick Hughes]

normal practice on a new build is that meter is fitted at the point they tap into main .. i.e. underground outside your land boundary.

Not sure about retrofit ... assume it would be on rising main in house before stopcock (as stopcock is yours) ... but open to theft as you could Tee off underground before it gets to meter and have outside taps on free water,

I built in 5000 gall underground tank in my place so all my outside water, wc's etc is free anyway

[D.M.Chapman]

In Folkestone, they are currently fitting water meters to *all* properties and all are out side the property buried in the pavement replacing the stopcock.

Ours was fitted in Sept and we've just had the first bill which appears to be pretty much exactly what it was before the meter was fitted. Still, handy as the stopcock in the street was knackered :)

Darren

[ransley]

You dont have water meters? So you can fill a pool, water for free, why not hook up a hydro generator and get free electricity, thats what I would do. Here in the US where it freezes 3 ft deep, inside is best with a remote sensor outside. Actualy a new type is bieng installed the 21st here, it will be remote, but all they will have to do is drive by the location, a computer will do the rest. Free water, so how much is beer, its mainly water.

[John]

You dont have water meters? So you can fill a pool, water for free, why not hook up a hydro generator and get free electricity, thats what I would do. Here in the US where it freezes 3 ft deep, inside is best with a remote sensor outside. Actualy a new type is bieng installed the 21st here, it will be remote, but all they will have to do is drive by the location, a computer will do the rest. Free water, so how much is beer, its mainly water.

In Severn Trent area I asked to have mine under the pavement as I didn't want any more plumbing clutter under the sink. It was done free of charge. If I get a leak on my property the I know I shall be paying for the water - but it would need fixing anyway - and what is the likelihood?

[Clot]

Well, I'm glad that mine is under the sink by intent!

This link shows what flowed out of the street stop tap box for three weeks before it was fixed. To be honest, it could have been on the supply side but then again, it could have been on my side after a meter!

[Clot]

[neverwas]

IIRC it work's by induction.

And FWIW Thames Water have stopped using "remote reading pads" because they - and the remote readers - are unreliable. That is why we had a new water meter fitted in the pavement a few months ago, in place of the one fitted by the stop-c*ck inside the house. But it may be that Severn have a better make/model.

[Frank Erskine]

As I said previously I had a water meter fitted internally by Northumbrian Water a few years ago. At their suggestion, as I was normally at work when the meter man came around I, requested a (free) "outreader" which is inductively coupled to the behind-the-sink-and/almost-washing machine meter. It's connected by a bit of sheathed cable through the wall to a gizmo in the back garden (always accessible unless I lock the side gate). This gizmo has a lead seal on the technical side and an hinged cover for the meter-reader to do his stuff via a LC display. I was told that the battery in the outreader should last around seven years, even though it gets a lot of (southerly) sun - because of the back panels of the fairly new kitchen units it's going to be a little tricky to read the actual meter... :-(

[Pete Verdon]

Mains water is about the earliest service going, and when they were fitting it in the 1800s it wasn't technically feasible to have meters. So everyone was billed on a flat rate based on the size of their house. Since the UK isn't generally short of water, unlike Australia or California, this didn't really matter. These days people are encouraged to fit meters; I don't think it's compulsory anywhere yet.

You think it's weird to have unmetered water; historically we always looked the same way at your unmetered local phone calls, since ours were always charged per minute.[1]

Pete

[1] There are tariffs here these days with unlimited local calls, but it's not considered the default. Everyone in my generation uses a mobile pretty much exclusively anyway.

[Dave Liquorice]

Nope, per minute/second billing is relatively new. You used to be charged per "unit" which bought you a varying amount of time dependant on when and where you were calling. Go 1 second into the next unit and you would be charged fo that whole unit. There was, and still is, a call connection fee as well. That used to be equivalent to a unit.

There are tarrifs with unlimited free landline calls to anywhere, anytime and possibly to mobiles as well. But the associated rentals are fairly steep. So unless you live on the phone making long distance calls they aren't worth it. I much prefer the tarrif almost minimum rental and call charges capped at 10p (25p for mobiles) for up to 1 hour duration. Nothing to stop you hanging up at 59:59 and redialing.

That would explain not knowing abiout the "units" system. B-)