Why not compulsory water meters?

[Timothy Murphy]

Probably OT, but my attention was drawn by a posting on water meters, and it made me wonder again why water meters are not a standard part of the water supply?

Every year one reads of water shortages in parts of the UK (not so much in Ireland, but it is not unknown here). One would have thought a charge by water usage would be an obvious response. I was staying in a relative's house in Brussels, and they had an enormous meter in the basement, which I assume is standard there.

Are water meters inordinately expensive? Or do they have some disadvantage?

[ben]

Because its more cost effective when the meter is supplying for just one person, but is expensive when their is a family of four and up.

Incidently should you get a water meter installed in your house and you come to sell the house prospective buyers will be put off by this as the meter once installed cannot be taken out.

[Doctor Drivel]

Water meters would focus the mind. In modern well insulated houses (all relevant as the UK is not well insulated to other countries), with two bathrooms etc, many have larger water than energy bills.

On the Continent, aerated taps are common, which use far les water than straight through as we tend to have. They also have smaller pipes to ceratin basins, etc, this reduces the waste in a dead-leg hot pipe.

In the Benelux countries rain water reclamation is standard in new houses, with large underground water tank in the garden.

There many simple measures to reduce water consumption:

- Low flush toilets

- Aerated taps.

- Install "flow regulators" before taps, or in certain pipe lines. Firehose pressures are not required at basins and sinks.

- secondary circulation pumps, to ensure hot water is at each pipe with a dead-leg.

- timed garden irrigation.

- low water usage appliances

- no high flow power showers.

All simple and can be implemented in most homes. In a new house most of this would add no cost.

[Doctor Drivel]

Put in water waste prevention measures, which doesn't mean you do without in any way, and then it is an attraction.

[:::Jerry::::]

meters,

How would you meter the amount of leaks in the company pipes, unless you meter the amount leaving the reservoir and deduct that used by the customers....

The problem is not what is used by the domestic consumer, the problem is caused by the non action of 'fat cat' private water companies....

As long as the fat cat water company directors and share holders are charged for the water loss cause by leaks - not fixed due to bonus payments and share dividends etc.

[bigcat]

They do not exist, it is a simple fiction designed to limit the use to the high but not infinite level of supply.

We have so much water it is unmetered. We have so much water it is acceptable to run garden sprinklers all day long, day after day. And some do.

Theyre a way of getting a big hike in prices in through the back door. Last I heard they also were fitted pre pipework that is the water co's responsibility, so if a leak occurs in that pipe, you pay for it. Unlimitedly.

This is why theyre not considered desirable.

Water metering is inevitable at some time, all new houses get them now. But if youre on unmeterd, unless youre planning to stay single for life, stay unmetered.

NT

[Doctor Drivel]

Water meters should be fitted inside a house, so that any underground leakage is not charged to the customer. The water companies say that from the curtlidge the consumer is responsible for the pipe work. This is garbage. The gas people are responsible for the gas mains up to the maintap, even though it may run 100 metres on your property.

[Mary Fisher]

I think they should be.

I don't think so. Ours is very small and neat, it was fitted within twenty minutes from answering the door to leaving.

Only the tired old ones people will come out with.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

I don't know why you say that. We asked for our meter to be fitted. We opted to pay by DD, monthly, on what the company deemed would be our usage for the equipment we had (we pay all our bills like that,through sheer laziness). It was less than we used to pay on the 'normal' system. The first year ended last month, we had a refund of £68 and the monthly payment has been reduced accordingly.

No they don't.

You could say the same thing about electricity, gas, telephone, petrol and, well, food.

Why shouldn't you pay for what you use?

Mary

[Peter Johnson]

It wasn't a problem when I sold a house with one fitted a few years ago.

[Steve Firth]

No it's not, it's long standing legal precedent.

[Mary Fisher]

It isn't a problem round here either, judging by the speed the For Sale notices go up and come down.

Mary

[ben]

Who bought the house, a couple with no children? and did you point out the water meter to the buyers?

[bigcat]

Comparing the costs each way of average water consumption maybe?

so what? All it tells us is you use less than average. Thats no surprise.

ok. The pipework in question is buried in gardens, and the user has no way of knowing its leaking like mad until they get an astronomical bill. With unmetered supplies this real risk doesnt exist.

So whereas it is not your problem if youre unmetered, it becomes your problem if on a meter.

its perfectly obvious one can not say that about any of those. I dont know of any people on unmetered supplies of electricity, gas, telephone, petrol and, well, food. Maybe you do.

I do, we all do. Most of us pay a flat rate based on average use.

NT

[Mark Williams]

They are at the supply end (and at various points in the supply network). A cynic might suggest that water companies would prefer not to have ubiquitous metering at the consumer end because it might draw attention to the amount of water lost through all the leaks that they consider unprofitable to repair.

That depends on how much is charged per unit and the threshold beyond which people are prepared to consider changing their usage.

If people were charged more for their water in order to regulate their usage, they might expect the money to be spent on the construction of a `national grid' for water rather than diverted into fat cats' pockets, too.

I'd quite like a water meter (or, more to the point, for my bill to reflect actual usage), but live in a block of flats with shared riser located inconveniently for meter reading. Can a meter be fitted in such a setup without expensive re-engineering of the supply? The water company web site is unhelpfully vague...

[Mary Fisher]

Comparing the costs each way of average water consumption maybe?

so what? All it tells us is you use less than average. Thats no surprise.

In my experience, of discussing it with other metered users, our experience is far from unique. None of them would go back to the old system.

ok. The pipework in question is buried in gardens, and the user has no way of knowing its leaking like mad until they get an astronomical bill. With unmetered supplies this real risk doesnt exist.

So whereas it is not your problem if youre unmetered, it becomes your problem if on a meter.

The meter is fitted in the house.

its perfectly obvious one can not say that about any of those. I dont know of any people on unmetered supplies of electricity, gas, telephone, petrol and, well, food. Maybe you do.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I do, we all do. Most of us pay a flat rate based on average use.

But if you were metered perhaps you might be more careful about what you use - as you do (I imagine) with electricity, gas etc.

Mary

NT

[ben]

A Water meter can be fitted in any property it sits between the main inlet in your flat and the feed pipe throughtout.

Just inform them you wish to have a meter installed and let them do the rest. They will send someone out and install it for free. However if its a council flat then you'd better get in touch with them first, if its private ask your landlord if he/she has any objection.

I lived in a House where it was three floors/flats I was paying £179 a year, to a single person thats a lot of money, so I got the meter installed and ended up paying £26 per six months, thats a hell of of a saving.

[Mary Fisher]

So I'm not alone on this group as in Real Life. Thanks, Ben,

Mary

[ben]

It wasn't a case of wanting a meter installed in my flat, it was a case having to because it seems I was paying for the whole house regardless of any other occupants being there or not, apparently it goes by the ratable value of the property banding in that particular area, so in other words as far as the waterboard was concerned the full amount was being paid regardless of there being three flats.

What made me furious was the same house across the road was occupied by a family of 8 who where paying the same amount and using a lot more water and yet I was in a flat.Where's the justice in that?

[Mary Fisher]

...

There is none.

We should pay for what we use, no more, no less.

Mary