water meters

[Stephen]

Hello,

Would anyone know about water meters?

We're a bit grumpy because we've found out that not only are we charged per litre on drinking water (which is fair enough, that's what the meter is for after all); we are charged for sewerage on the same amount. That seems wrong because not all the water from the taps goes to the drains. I'm thinking of steam from cooking, the dishwasher, the shower, etc.

My main concern is that we are keen gardeners and a lot of water goes onto the garden. Whilst the other examples might be small, the amount we use on the garden is not.

The down pipes on our gutters do not make it easy for us to connect butts, but I am thinking about getting some new down pipes installed to help us with that.

In the meantime, the water co. have said if we fit a meter on the garden tap we will not have to pay sewerage on the water used on the garden. The problem is that I see there are different classes of meter; does anyone know which class I would need for a garden tap?

TIA Stephen.

[Bob Minchin]

Welcome to the real world Stephen. Waste water costs money to process. However, if you look at your bill, I think you will find you are charged for sewage at the rate of 92.5% of the clean water measured by your supply meter. Meters are normally supplied by the water board - mine certainly was even though I fitted it myself. Secondary meters may well be different but the water board should nevertheless be able to provide the specification. Watch out for any charges they may impose to read the second meter especially as the intention is to move towards roadside, remote metering using readers in vans.

Bob

[Tim S]

Stephen wibbled:

I would ask the water company what they require.

Otherwise, here's a cheap one from a respectable supplier:

Tim

[chris French]

In message , Stephen writes

Are you sure? I don't think you should be - IIRC we are charged at 95% of the volume of the water used.

I doubt that loses via steam amount to much really. i imagine it's things like washing the car, watering the garden, washing windows etc.

Hmm, you might be surprised, we have a pretty big garden, we use water from the tap quite often for watering the veg , fruit and greenhouse, though flowers beds and lawn mostly have to fend for themselves, but our water consumption doesn't seem to differ much between summer and winter

I think you would need to ask them what they would accept really.

[Vet Tech]

What I do know is that eventual compulsory fitment of domestic water meters is a real con by politicians with vested interests. Virtually similar to last weeks revelations about smart electricity meters whereby a certain member of the House of Lords acting on behalf of Landis+Gyr the Swiss manufacturer of smrt meters. See.................

per day consultancy ain't bad is it.

Water meters cost =A3200 each to install aand the cost of that gets put on your water bill. Who benefits?

[Stephen]

I was just told "any one that meets the cold water supply regulations" and a link to the OPSI web site. Unfortunately that does not go into detail about classes, so I am waiting for elaboration from the water co.

Thanks.

[Stephen]

You are correct, there is a tiny reduction. However the sewage charges are still more than the fresh water charges. I appreciate it all costs money, but I would have thought it would cost more to make water potable than treat sewage?

Yes, I have asked them about that too. The idea is to save more, not get charged more.

[Tim S]

Stephen wibbled:

I would ring BES. I would just confirm if they are WRAS approved, which implies suitable for domestic potable water, though their description suggests they are.

No idea what the Class designation is - possibly, at a wild guess, teh accuracy as that's the only thing I can think that may be affected by orientation of a jet based meter - as you say, if so, Water Co would probably be the best bet as it's them who care.

Cheers

Tim

[The Medway Handyman]

Its the same thing surely? IYSWIM

[Roger Mills]

Not exactly, I hope! Hopefully the treated sewage gets diluted somewhat before re-entering the system to be made potable.

[Frank Erskine]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:21:47 +0100, Stephen had this to say:

On the other hand, you probably 'dispose' of water from elsewhere, such as bottles of pop, tea, coffee etc from restaurants, pubs and so on, so it's a case of swings and roundabouts.

My local water company (Northumbrian Water) charges on the basis of equal quantities supplied and disposed of.

[Clot]

It does and to answer TMH's comment, the number of stages of treatment of raw water and sewage are comparable. The energy involved in treating sewage is often more than that for potable water. Also, the conveyance of sewage and the costs of disposing of screenings can be much greater than that for distributing water.

[Matty F]

You'd be best to collect as much rainwater as you can. Have a very obvious outdoor tap for watering your garden, plus a hidden pipe that goes to your toilet cisterns and washing machine, and don't tell the water company about it :) So ideally your water butt needs to be higher than your toilet cisterns and washing machine. You'll need a solid frame with diagonal braces to support a ton of water.

[R]

Or.

. . . . A pump!

[Matty F]

That's harder to hide from the Water Company Inspector :)

[Roger Mills]

What are you hiding - the fact that you're using rain water to flush your toilets and wash your clothes? Is that illegal?

[Matty F]

Yes, if you put that water down the sewer system without paying for the sewage disposal.

[Roger Mills]

Ah, right!

Presumably only applies if you have separate foul and storm sewers though? If you have a combined sewer, any uncollected rainwater is going to end up in it anyway.

[Matty F]

Well I'm in NZ where separation of foul and storm sewers has been progressing for many years. We have the same discussions about water meters. The eventual situation will be that the water company wants to charge for everything that goes down the foul sewer. A meter for that is very expensive, so they just measure the water that they supply, i.e. not rainwater that you collect. If you collect rainwater for drinking or showers the Council will likely want you to pay for a permit and an annual inspection! And engineering calculations and a permit for the supports for the water tank, if it's off the ground.

[mogga]

What size water tank can you fit?

Once you know how much water you use you'll see how big a container you'd need to collect rainwater to do the same job.