washing machine question.

Washing machine was working fine, then CLUNK and it wouldn't do anything, after spending time running around etc seems our Guarantee ran out on the 13th. Had convinced ourselves buying a new one was not such a big deal, decided that as we were getting a new one anyway I would have a look at it (don't mind minor D.I.Y. tasks but flaffing about with electrics and water felt beyond me), found the belt lying in the bottom not broken or anything just "off" so I put it back on and everything SEEMS hunky dory as everything works and we don't have to buy a new one. However one thing is niggling at me the shaft on the motor and the pulley on the drum seem perfectly flat there are no grooves for the belt to fit into what stops the belt "pinging off" again in the near future?
Machine is an Indesit W123
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Chances are the weights have worked loose? these are whats known as the (bricks) if the drum was to become unbalanced then the belt would flip off at some time or other.
The weights are bolted to the drums outer skin.
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soup wrote:

Same thing that has prevented it pinging off since you had the machine - tension. Belt has probably stretched over time. There should be a couple of bolts on the motor in slots to allow adjustment.
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You'll notice, probably, that the pulley isn't actually flat, but curved across its width. It has a larger diameter in the middle. That's what keeps the belt on.
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Maybe the manufacturer would still repair it under guarantee if it only ran out a few days ago, this has worked for me sometimes in the past. Is the machine only a year and a bit old, or was it an extended warranty (e.g. five years) that has expired?

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Notwithstanding and 'warranty' you are protected by the Sale of Goods Act 1979. In particular the Act states:
(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.
The key issues are at (a) and (e) Clearly if the washing machine failed within a short time, likely within five years, it is neither 'fit for purpose' or 'durable' and the supplier of the machine must take the appropriate action.
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On 2007-03-25 08:23:16 +0100, Edward W. Thompson

This is true - however a few points from experience of using this for other transactions.
1) There are also the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (as amended), Unfair Contract Terms legislation and where appropriate, Distance Selling Regulations. There are aspects of these that may be useful depending on the circumstances
2) There is a statute of limitations of 6 years after which you can't pursue an action against the supplier unless there is a warranty greater than that, in which case the supplier has committed himself for that period.
3) If the item was purchased using a credit mechanism and the price paid was > 100, the credit supplier is jointly and severally liable with the supplier of the goods. It is worth contacting them before proceeding to legal action, because they may well lean on the supplier to get them to fulfill their obligations. a) It costs nothing financially and b) they do the work. c) It can be a lot quicker to produce results than legal action. I've recently used this mechanism quite successfully
4) It goes without saying that the supplier and not the manufacturer has the responsibility for the product. The manufacturer may wish to make life easier for the supplier by offering a warranty and executing it, but this does not mean that the supplier can wash his hands of the affair, despite what he might say. Initial contact with the supplier can be verbally with the immediate place of purchase. After that, I go to the head office, in writing, sent by Special Delivery. There is no point in intermediate steps because if there is going to be a court action, they will be involved anyway. They should also know that that will cost them money and may then do something about the problem. If the problem is a design or manufacturing defect, they won't be shy about letting the manufacturer know about that.
5) The statute of limitations does not imply that everything has a 6 year automatic warranty or anything else. Once the goods are outside of the original committed warranty and up to 6 years, one is in the territory of reasonableness as far as the courts are concerned. This means that they will look at the claim in the context of the market,(meaning the price paid in the context of other products of the same type). For a larger claim, they might also look at other factors such as whether the product had been used at a greater level than intended (e.g. a drill from Aldi used by a tradesperson) - probably not in this case because the claim would be too small to warrant it. For the particular example here, one can look at the price range of washing machines. A quick look on a few web sites indciates that washing machines start at 170 at the bottom end (Beko) and go up to about 1250 (Miele), if one ignores the Maytag Neptune at 1500. The Indesit W123 seems to be at around 220; so it is certainly closer to the low end than the top. The court would take this into account. Thus, if I had a Miele (which I do), I would be pursuing the supplier up to the full 6 years, regardless (academic because there are usually 5 and 10 year warranties anyway). However, if I had an Indesit, I could *try* going for 5 years, but I think it would be a stretch. Generally the court would award nothing or a token amount (perhaps 20-50). Then one has to ask whether it would have been worth the effort. There would not be an award for the time taken in preparing the case and attending court (if it were necessary), unless one is in an occupation where time is billed to customers. Even then, pursuing that would be tough.
Give all of that, and an Indesit product, I would certainly go after the supplier at a few days outside the warranty, no question. I would think seriously at anything > 2 years and probably not bother at >3 years.
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Edward W. Thompson wrote:

We are not the purchasers, machine was "given" to us (new)by the "Family Fund" (Joseph Rowntree trust)it was a charity when it was the JRT but now it is the FF it is a government agency. We qualify for help from them by dint of my son having special needs they have a service/repair agreement with the washing machine manufacturer, as the FF is run by the government would take it that the legal side has been covered. Perhaps it is more cost effective (if not good for the environment)to bin and supply new than to try and keep old (greater than 5 years) washing machines running.
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Interesting observation. This post contains one question. Most of the replies don't answerr it at all (but we get a very long screed on the SOGA, for example).
People have failed exams for less!
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This is true, of course. If you've ever looked at a Cisco exam, you will have seen that in many cases, there are several right answers in the multiple choice, which will work correctly, but that there is only one correct *Cisco* answer (usually meaning some piece of technology that only Cisco has).
In this case, there is presumably some mechanism that can't actually be seen by the naked eye that causes the belt to (normally) stay in the right place. Considering that Indesit is a product built to a price point, the implementation is done to save cost of components.
One possibility is that there is a high point on both shafts and the belt rides on that. My bandsaw (like others) has this arrangement - there is a tyre on the cast wheel at the top and the same on the bottom. The blade locates itself on the high spots. There is even an adjustment made by tilting the wheels fractionally to make sure that this happens. I don't know what the engineering principle is for this but it does work. I can cut wood.
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See my previous post on the subject. A technique that has been used for decades.
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Yes, Shugart 8" (128k !) floppy disk drives had pulleys and belts that worked like that 30 years ago.
A bit counter-intuitive, to me at any rate. I would have expected the belts to slip off sideways/downhill rather than ride up to the high point of the pulley.
DG
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wrote:

Same here. But it works OK on our Hotpoint! See:
http://www.old-engine.com/belts2.htm
and look at section 24. Old factory line shafting used it.
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I remember those very well. The motor was mains driven.
During that era, I had a computer with these that needed to be shipped to the U.S. for a trade show along with some other equipment. The power aspect had been sorted in that 220v was to be provisioned at the stand. Unfortunately, what was forgotten was that the motors in the drives were of a type where the mains frequency influences the speed of rotation. On arrival in the U.S., the drives simply didn't work because they were now spinning 20% faster. The electronics wasn't capable of dealing with the index signal happening more frequently or indeed the higher data rate; so no computer. What was worse was that this was a Friday and the trade show was opening on the Saturday. What to do?
Fortunately, we had the technical manual for the drive and that had a parts list and exploded diagram. In those days one could buy the small piece parts individually. We determined that the only differences for 60Hz operation vs. 50Hz was a smaller pulley on the motor and a different motor if you wanted 110v. Even the belt remained the same because it was quite long and a bit stretchy. Result!
Then hopes were dashed again. Finding a Shugart repair centre in New York open on a Saturday proved fruitless. Even new drives weren't an option - nowhere open.
Then we hit on the idea of perhaps the pulley could be turned down to the size of a 60Hz one - fortunately it was this way round. This was an even longer shot. Machine shop in Manhattan open on a Saturday afternoon? Didn't seem likely... but we found one. 30 mins or so on the lathe and the guy had done it complete with convex surface. Pullies back on drives and up it all came with relief all round.
I still don't why the belts ride on the high points, but they do.
The software was to control quite a complex automation system and it all fitted comfortably on one 128k floppy. Nowadays it would probably be run by Windows Vista and be crashing three times a day like the video screens above the baggage carousels at airports. It takes away much of the irritation of it being harder to find which carousel it is when one can smile at the blue screen of death on the display.
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If you look carefully at the drum pulley you should see that it is not flat, it is slightly domed. This is a nice old mechanical trick that forces a tight belt to wrap around the dome and therefore self-centre itself at the crest.
Main reasons for the belt falling off are either there was a sudden one-off snatch, or the belt has become too slack for the self-centreing to work properly.
A more obscure and less probable reason is that the shafts have become misaligned or loose.
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