This may sound a strange question, but is it possible to view plans held by the council in respect of your own home? My current property has had significant building work carried out on it over the last 10 years and I am looking to do some more internal work. I would like to see what might be lurking behind walls, etc! Is it a simple as going to the council with the address details of the house and asking to see the file? Somehow I reckon it might not be that easy! If this is possible, any idea of the costs involved to peruse and maybe copy?
When we were selling a house some years ago and had to try and find the lost Building Regulations consent for improvement work carried out to it, the planning dept. of the local council were very helpful. They retrieved the file from the archives (in another building) while I waited, and wouldn't leave me alone with the file, but were happy to make copies of relevant documents for me to take away. There was no charge.
I suspect it'll come down to how busy they are, your own attitude, and whether you get someone who is genuinely interested in helping instead of a jobsworth. Crossing the official's hand with some of the folding stuff to buy himself a pint also helps (it did in my case.)
Planning applications are open to the public. You have no legal right to see Building Regulations applications drawings so whether you are allowed to or not will depend on the policy of the LA. Back in my BCO days (1976-84) we would always make plans available to the current owner or their agent but some LA's now refuse to do this on the grounds that they may be providing something that will be used in evidence against them (i.e. the plan specified x but the BCO agreed to accept y), and one LA (totally irresponsibly IMO) shreds all plans after 7 years.
On a slightly different note: Some years ago I wrote to the council asking if they had details of the sewer system around my house as I had five manholes in my garden (only two were relevant to me). They sent back a copy of the submitted plans for the area that was covered by the building application at the time - around thirty houses. Nicely coloured in in felt pen to differentiate between surface and foul water sewers and main sewer lines. I think they charged a fiver for it - there was an invoice included with the map.
(It turned out that they had built one house less on the road at right angles to me and where the bottom of my garden is was the original garage access road, the three manholes being related to the house that never was).
Roger (my reader sometimes loses mail/newsgroup messages
- if you think you should have had a reply/comment, please e-mail me again. Ta!)
When I wanted to extend my house I visited the council office to view the original drawings on the planning application and found they held a full set of plans with all the original construction details included. This was probably due to the original architect making one set of drawings for everything and YMMV but cross your fingers. They provided me with copies for my architect/design engineer to work from.
On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:11:40 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named pmd randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Your question's already been answered, so I won't go over it again, but a couple of points:
Any dwelling (in England and Wales at least) built or altered over the last 20 years could have been done on a Building Notice, which doesn't require plans to be submitted or checked.
Even if there are full architectural details on file with mountains of specifications, etc., it doesn't mean that's how the work was carried out. The owner might have changed their mind halfway through, or the builder changed one type of insulation for another, for instance.
Most councils will let you view the details submitted to them (but not their site records) provided you are the current owner. However the original plans & calculations are the copyright of the original drawer, and will require their permission before they can be copied.
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:04:02 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Probably. AFAIK, the information provided on the form is checked that it's in that Council's area, to make sure the address is valid, and that it's been signed. Then to make sure that a Building Notice can be used (i.e., it's not work which affects the fire safety of a workplace, it's not within 3m of a sewer, that it doesn't involve a new house on a private street, or that an initial notice hasn't already been submitted for the work). Then the fee is checked. This means that sufficient information has to be provided to tell the scope of the works (i.e., for an extension, how big it is and how many storeys it is). If all that's correct, then an acknowledgement letter is sent out. If not, then phone calls, faxes, letters have to be sent to whoever puts the application in (often an illiterate builder who hasn't the first idea even about where he's working or who for). All within the mythical two working days.
OK. So it seems that this is really mainly an administrative exercise and that as long as the applicant has done the paperwork properly, it passes unimpeded through the system.
Is there ever an inspection - e.g. on a sample basis, or is it generally that there is no time to do this because of the work on full applications? Is there even a requirement in law for the LA to do that anyway?
Presumably a Building Notice means that the person filling it in is taking responsibility and that really the LA's part is more to record that something has happened in the event of a search etc.?
If you're implying that work done under a Building Notice doesn't get inspected, that couldn't be further from the truth.
I did ** my extension on a Building Notice, and had to notify the BCO at each defined stage so that he could check that it was done to regs. The initial visit was more rigorous than usual - because he needed to understand exactly what was to be built, and how we were proposing to meet the regs. This included some negotiation on window sizes, fire escape openings, etc. - which would all have been done up front with a full plans submission.
At the end of the job, the BCO issued a Completion Notice, certifying that it had been done to regs - which it had, more or less!
I was just asking Hugo, who is a BCO, by way of a question.
As I had understood it from looking at information from several LAs, building notices appear to be mainly used where the work involved is realtively minor in nature such as domestic internal alterations, small extensions and other small works.
If a very small work such as replacing a front door were being done, (with one that is over 50% glazed for example), AIUI, it would be a controlled work and if it were a DIY job (i.e. non FENSA contractor), then s building notice would officially be required.
The question was really one of how far down the scale would an inspection be made. All the way to the smallest thing?
That is my impression too. But in inner London (the old LCC area) the only method used until recent years was submitting a Building Notice, though of course in practice if you were building Centre Point or somesuch you probably submitted plans and calculations long before you started. But these would be noted (or queried!) not formally approved AIUI.
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 18:27:57 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Sorry, I thought you were just asking about the administration of the application, rather than the whole process from start to finish.
Work on a Building Notice gets inspected, if anything, more frequently than a Full Plans because we have no idea what work they are doing until it's done.
IMHO, Building Notices are submitted by rogues and cowboys (owners, architects or builders) who think that by not submitting plans they are 'getting away' with a proper check on their work. They do have their place for minor works (detached garages, minor internal alterations, etc), but all too frequently they are used on work where they are wholly inappropriate, such as complex loft conversions, flat conversions and new houses.
There is no 'requirement' on the Local Authority to check building work on a Full Plans or Building Notice at any stage (just on the person carrying out the work to notify them), but one wouldn't have much of a defence against a charge of negligence if they didn't.
That doesn't surprise me. I thought that the types of works that could be handled through each procedure was much more delineated than it seems to be. From what I've found on a few LA web sites it appears that the main absolute for requiring a full plans application is if there is an issue of fire protection or escape and that pretty much everything else could be handled either way. Is that the case or have I misunderstood?
Right.
I suppose my other question was is there a point at which inspections don't typically take place? I was trying to think of the smallest controlled work that I could that didn't have any structural implication like replacement of a front door with a glazed one - i.e. Part L1 issue, possibly part N.
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:03:59 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
It is. Regulation 12 of the Building Regulations says (in summary):
-A person shall deposit full plans where he intends to carry out building work in relation to a building put or intended to be put to a use which is a relevant use [In this regulation "relevant use" means a use as a workplace of a kind to which Part II of the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations 1997 applies or a use designated under section
1 of the Fire Precautions Act 1971] (In theory, this means that a Full Plans application is required for _any_ controlled work to such a building; in practice, a Building Notice would be accepted for work which didn't affect fire safety, such as drainage);
-A person shall deposit full plans where he intends to carry out work which includes the erection of a building fronting on to a private street;
-A person shall deposit full plans where he intends to carry out building work in relation to which paragraph H4 of Schedule 1 [building over a drain, sewer or disposal main which is shown on any map of sewers] imposes a requirement.
For anything else for which an application is required, the applicant can choose to submit either Full Plans or a Building Notice.
I know a lot of Building Control publicity material tries to steer people away from Building Notices by stressing the disadvantages, for the reasons in my previous post.
I think any BC section would inspect work at least once, even just to check that it took place.
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