Bryant homes won't supply building plans - is this normal?

Hello,

I am a first time buyer for a home and as such am not as savvy as I would hope to be when making such a large investment. As such I would appreciate any advice on offer.

I am in the process of securing a mortgage for a home built by Bryant Homes. During the process of putting down my deposit, I was briefly shown the architect's drawings, wiring layout, sewage lines and so on for about 5-10 seconds each (really). I asked if I may make a copy, but was refused by the salesperson on grounds of copyright.

I then asked their head office, who said I can not have a copy of these plans because:

"Unfortunately, it is not our company policy to give out copies of architects drawings/electrical details etc. However, you can make an appointment with the Site Manager to go through these plans in order to discuss any concerns you may have."

Can someone please explain if this is normal?

I would like to have the plans so that I may appoint my own surveyor to determine if the plot/building is to specifications (plot area, building dimensions, anything else?), where the electrical/gas/ plumbing wiring is so I don't drill them while installing wall mountings, where the underground lines are so I don't damage them several years after planting trees and so on. Furthermore, I do not see why I should have to consult the Site Manager for details about my home and have it handed out to me piecemeal.

If they continue to refuse, are there any legal instruments I can use to compel them to supply these to me?

Also, I was concerned that there appears to be a slate missing on the front roof already:

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I was informed that:

"In respect of the attached photograph and your suggestion that a tile has fallen off the roof, I can confirm that this is a vent tile which could be connected to the soil stack or one of the extractor fans in either a bathroom or en-suite."

Thank you for any views.

Reply to
Dan Green
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Sounds to me as if Bryant are scared of potential liability issues.

Suppose they give you a set of plans - showing services (gas, electricity etc).

Based on those plans, you drill holes in walls and electrocute yourself or blow the place up - because the 'as built' position of the services doesn't correspond with the positions on the plans. I guess your surviring relatives might sue Bryant ? You'd hope that they'd built to plan - but you never know....

A couple of possible courses of action.....

If the housing market's slowing then you should be in a good bargaining position. Something along the lines of 'gimme the plans or the deal's off'..?

You may be worrying unnecessarily. Talk to your Surveyor / Solicitor and see what they think.

Hope this helps Adrian

Reply to
Adrian

From the phote it looks like one is missing to me too.

Reply to
1501

Seriously, you should be aware that new build commands a premium of about

20% over and above a similar dwelling of 10 years old.

You may think that new build is the best bet for a first time buyer because there won't be any big maintenance issues to deal with. In fact you may have considerably more than a slightly older place due to sorting out all sorts of snags and trying to get the builders or their guarantors to cough up.

Most people seem to get along fine without plans just working out where things are likely to be.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

I doubt whether you have any legal right to the plans. I don't think I got a set when I bought my previous house new in 1968. I *think* all I had was the layout diagrams in the brochure. I suppose you might persuade them to hand over a copy on completion, on the basis that you will need them if you ever want to build an extension.

In the unlikely event that the plans show the location of all the services, they're pretty much fiction anyway - the subbies (sparks, plumber, etc.) will put the cables and pipes wherever is easiest for them regardless of what the plans say. The only way to be sure, is to look at the *actuals*.

Is it fair to assume that the inside work isn't yet done - wiring, plumbing, plastering, etc.? [I assumed this was the case because any surveyor you might employ won't have much chance of finding out what's what after it's all covered up]. If work *is* still in progress, why don't you go there frequently and take digital photos of all the cables and pipes before they're plastered over or boxed in, then you'll have your own records.

You can also make your own measurements of the site and of the building - who needs a surveyor? I not sure quite what you plan to do if you find that the house is six inches too far to the right!

With regard to the roof, the whole thing looks extremely uneven to me - as if the tiles have been laid by the tea boy rather than by someone who knows what he's doing. Some of the brickwork doesn't look too clever either - particularly next door's gable, which seems to be built with bricks which don't match the rest of the house. If those things are symptomatic of the general standard of construction, I think I would walk away right now before parting with any money!

Reply to
Roger Mills

What does it look like on the other houses?

Maybe get someone _reputable_ to do a snagging inspection:

cheers, Pete.

Reply to
Pete C

Is it just me, or is the design of the flashing on the chimney a bit unusual?

Andy

Reply to
Andy Champ

I think it is a slate roof rather than tiles of one form or the other like the neighbours either side. Bit of a mish mash though, three different roofing styles on adjacent buildings?

The gap could be a vent, slates (should) overlap by more than 50% of their length. It varies a bit on pitch and expected winds. So a missing slate is just a gap in the row not a black hole with a bar up the middle. But in any case it looks pig ugly, I'd get 'em to shift the vent to one of the gable ends. Taking into account what happens to any condensation in the duct work...

I noticed that and why is it rendered already? Rendering is normally used to cover something up that is best hidden. What's with the massive lead (you can tell it's lead from the sulphate stain already forming on the roof, have they not heard of patination oil?) around the chimneys, which curiously doesn't extend around onto the gable wall. One decent blow and that'll be ripped off.

Inclined to agree with that and with what Mr Sirett said about the problems associated with a new build. Everything has a "bathtub" curve of things going wrong.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

If they're getting arsey, i'd be tempted to look closer at stuff like the wiring to see that it conforms to the new regs as regards permitted runs (horizontal / vertical from an outlet etc) - new houses used to have the stuff slung in on all sorts of funny angles to save a few quid on cable over the entire site.

Reply to
Colin Wilson

You may want to have a look at some of the other houses to see if they, too, have been rendered and then ask why.

At least ask why the one in the photograph has had the treatment.

Some years ago we bought a new house on an estate and noticed that half a dozen had been rendered. It turned out that the bricklayers they had used in that area of the estate were very much fourth division and the brickwork simply had to be hidden.

On the same estate one almost finished house was demolished over a weekend with stairs, windows and doors neatly piled up to the side. I've never seen a house built quite so fast as the replacement was. It turned out that the back wall of the house was two bricks longer than the front wall and so the rooms were well out of true. Only came to light when the plasterers put their try squares on and couldn't get the corners right.

Reply to
F

In message , Dan Green writes

The plans do belong to them, they are under no obligation to let you have a copy if they don't want to - unless there is something in the contract that says otherwise, you're buying a house, not the designs for one (which might be of use to their competitors)

Reply to
geoff

I assume the idea is to look more like a "natural" town street built up over the years, rather than like an estate of identical boxes. Can't fault the intention, even if it sounds like the execution isn't quite up to par.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

How will buyers know the house is being sold as advertised if buyers do not have access to the plans to verify it? The rooms/plot size could be smaller than they're supposed to be, for example.

Reply to
Dan Green

If you're concerned about Barretts selling you a smaller house than they promised, what's so much more trustworthy about their plans? Get your tape-measure out and find out for yourself.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

In message , Dan Green writes

You could use the same argument for almost anything you buy

Try, for example, asking Microsoft for a copy of Vista source code, so you can be sure it does what it says on the can,

Reply to
geoff

You would need to retain copies (originals if possible) of the promotional materials. I.e. the advertising on which you base(d) your decision to buy. And any letters, etc. that are relevant. Unless they actually positively used the plans you briefly saw as promotional material I don't see why you would need them to prove whether or not it is "as advertised". If push came to shove, a court might have the power to demand the plans be produced - but that would need checking with someone who knows something about the law.

Reply to
Rod

Do you think they would answer honestly if it was shoddy workmanship?

"Why's that house been rendered and the rest left as plain brick?"

"Oh, that's because the brickies we used for that build were shit!"

"I want my deposit back".

Reply to
Jon

Don't the usual terms & conditions expressly state that no reliance should be placed on any published plans or dimensions (let alone actual construction drawings).

Seems pretty poor to me - you put your deposit down on the basis of what they tell you, they then build what they want.

Chris

Reply to
Chris J Dixon

I do agree - it would be much better if any such plans were made part of the contract with full accessibility. Fair enoguh adding a comment that you shouldn't drill through a wall in case there is an elctric cable/pipe/something else.

Surely the original plans should be the starting point for home information packs?

Reply to
Rod

There are no orginal documents of any sort relating to this house or to the land it is built on. They were lost/destroyed in the region of 200 years ago, the orginal house is about 300 years old...

Not everybody lives in identiboxes. B-)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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