upvc windows (o/t)

This is a bit off-topic because I'm (almost definitely) not going to do it myself. I think lack of maintenance is of necessity going to be an important factor in replacing our tired timber windows.

I presume that first floor tmber windows have some structual input, adding support to the house. Is this true? Are uPVC windows available that have aluminium reinforcement, or are they all just hollow plastic these days?

On close inspection of other houses in the street, the quality of fitting is often poor even with the larger firms (eg window too small, packed out, and error hidden with plastic strip)

Anyone know of a good firm in the NW that'll consider structural aspect and do a decent job?

Thanks Tony Is there a website or more appropriate n/g?

Reply to
tonyjeffs
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For the money it'll cost, why don't you just pay someone to paint them when they need it?

Reply to
Chris Bacon

uPVC windows require easily as much maintenance long term as timber. Timber windows need more frequent maintenance (i.e. painting every 7 years). uPVC require wholesale replacement every 10 to 20 years.

uPVC windows are also as pleasant to look at as infected sick.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Not neccisarily. On modern (ish) properties the window openings are usually fully supported by a lintle over the opening. This is also true of most older properties (even of the lintle is wood). The exception may be in the case of a bay window where you can't add a lintle to support the weighr of the bay itself. First floor windows (i.e. upstairs ones) are less of a problem usually since they are not usually carying as much weight anyway.

You can get steel struts that fit inside them for just these occations.

That is often just a case of the installer not wanting to make good the existing finish on the window reveal rather than the window actually being under sized.

Sorry no, but is is certainly worth asking the question of prepective companies to guage their response.

Reply to
John Rumm

"tonyjeffs" wrote:

All upvc window and door profiles are reinforced with metal. A lintel above the window frame will often be load bearing, but the DG surveyor and fitters will/should determine this. Some bay windows support the bay roof and need support during removal and supporting pillars added as part of the replacement DG. I doubt that any DG firm can risk causing structural damage as they would be liable for the repair. If you decide to go ahead, a salesperson will visit first to measure up and discuss requirements - that will form the basis of the estimate and price. You will probably be asked to pay a deposit at this stage. Ask the salesman if the price is final and firm - a common scam is that later on the surveyor will find things that cost extra for things that the salesman didn't mention, such as openings on upstairs windows to meet fire escape regulations, or the need for toughened glass instead of normal glass. If you accept the estimate, their surveyor will visit later to take final measurements and final specifications. I have recently ordered replacement windows and doors, and found it very useful to visit several DG showrooms first and just chat with them to get a feel of whether they are honest or devious. One firm offered 'free' Pilkington self-cleaning glass, but didn't mention that this glass has a blue tint, or offer the option of normal K glass. There are some excellent DG firms and some that are awful. Personal recommendations can be useful but not necessarily very reliable. Regarding errors hidden with plastic strip, that may be the case but it is possible that the strip was necessary to get a neat weatherproof finish. There is always a gap between the frame and masonry, and it has to be filled somehow, and silicone sealant may not be enough. But if it doesn't look right then that is suspicious. Good luck!

Reply to
Phil Anthropist

Erm, no they're not.

Reply to
Grunff

If you happen to be in or near Preston, Lancashire, then give Sharbeck Windows a ring. They're just a two-man band who've been in the double glazing business since 1978. They're listed in Yellow Pages but they don't actually advertise because they don't need to - all their work comes as word-of-mouth personal recommendations from satisfied customers.

To keep the group happy and to follow protocol I should point out that I'm a personal friend of the lads, having known them since about 1976, but I'm also a satisfied customer of theirs as they've done the double glazing at my own house and at my mam's as well.

John.

Reply to
Mogweed

I like your world... can we all live in it?

Alternatively they could fold and reopen the company every few years to make sure the liabilities are left behind!

Reply to
John Rumm

I've updated windows using a few different companies. My experience is that any company with a national coverage will have a salesman you can't get rid of particularly if they've travelled a distance and their quote will send you grey.

Some salesmen have good information doing down the opposition. We had one who gave us a cutting saying the owner of the firm I said I preferred was in court for fraud. It put us off them but we didn't use the salesman either.

I've taken to using small local companies and have found 1 that I'd definitely recommend in the Blackpool area. My neighbour also recommends one he's used. If I knew where-abouts in the NW you are I'd let you know.

In general the best thing is to go to their showroom or ask to see examples of their work. Also aks questions about steel reinforcement, locks, etc.

Reply to
Pete

Why uPVC? Think of all the unecological elements of the manufacture. If you do go ahead, do think about things they don't tell you, like the thickness of the frames (they tend to look much more ugly when they are up), the quality of the locks, and mechanisms for opening the window so you can clean both sides from the inside.

One thing which took me by surprise when having a new door fitted was the huge threshold which was used: since there was already a step down to the outside we ended up with a very uncomfortable manoeuvre for my elderly father who was living with us. I'm sure others will add other gotchas to think about.

Douglas de Lacey

Reply to
Douglas de Lacey

Thanks for all the information, very helpful. I really would prefer to keep/replace in wood, but due to health issues I wont be able to maintain it. The replacement of PVC in 20 years will be someone else's problem.

The existing original windows are at a stage where they need significantly more than painting; I've replaced sills, transoms, spliced new wood into the main frames, but some are escaping and too far gone.

I would enjoy fitting new windows myself - I've done a terraced house - but I would be uncomfortable about removing and fitting the front bay windows to a stop-watch - Each would have to be completed from start to finish in a day for security, and particularly not having installed a

5-section bay window before, I wouldn''t like to be rushed. It'd end up c*ck-eyed!

I think I'll see if there's some kind of paint-impregnated wood available that would need less frequent maintenance.

John, I liked your point on limited companies. Been there! ! Douglas, good point about the plastic threshold - timber doesn't need a threshold.

Decisions decisions!

Tony

Reply to
tonyjeffs

There are two (3..) big problems with uPVC windows;

  1. Even if each individual panel is reinforced with galvanized steel (which seems to be the norm), any joints, corner joints or welds are not. So suppose you have a door with a window either side, and windows above, the horizontal bar from wall to wall, at the head of the door, is actually 3 in-line steel sections, with plastic joins. So there is limited structural integrity.

  1. there is no way of knowing how good the quality of plastic is - how long it will take to discolour.

  2. The salesmen I've had reject structural concerns, either by being patronising or by being insulting. You simply cant get important factual information.

Structurally, they're ok where the surrounding brickwork will afford adequate structural stability, eg if it involves one or two panels of glass.

Tony This is my personal opinion. It is not indisputable fact and I don't want to be sued.

Reply to
tonyjeffs

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